31 Replies Latest reply: May 1, 2013 7:13 AM by Tracy Maurer RSS

    Private discussions not Private??!!?

    Christy Conklin

      We're about to launch and have a fairly sizable test group now.  A staffer started a private discussion between two other people (one of whom I follow).  While I could not see the original discussion, the reply showed up in my communications feed because I am following one of the people.  Are private discussions not actually private? 

       

      Jackson Lau

        • Re: Private discussions not Private??!!?
          Nikki Bussard

          Do you have admin privileges? If so, you can see all content.

            • Re: Private discussions not Private??!!?
              Christy Conklin

              Yes.  Is that the reason?

              • Re: Private discussions not Private??!!?
                Christy Conklin

                If that was the reason than why didn't I see the original post?  I didn't see the conversation until the person I was following posted.

                • Re: Private discussions not Private??!!?
                  Ted Hopton

                  Nikki is correct about private discussions.

                   

                  However, there is also a bug that shows direct messages and shares in the communications page of sys admins for people they are tracking. We are told it is fixed in Jive 5.0.3 -- and a good thing, too, since even sys admins should not be seeing private direct messages and shares from the people they are tracking.

                   

                  If it's too much -- as it was for me -- stop tracking the person and you'll no longer see their direct messages and shares.

                    • Re: Private discussions not Private??!!?
                      Christy Conklin

                      Wow.  That's not good.  This particular group of people have now lost trust in the site.

                        • Re: Private discussions not Private??!!?
                          Ted Hopton

                          How many sys admins do you have? It's normal for sys admins to see most everything in a system and they must be discreet and sensitive to the privacy of users. The bug is an issue, but if you only have a couple of sys admins you should be able to manage it or hold off until you can go to version 5.0.3.

                            • Re: Private discussions not Private??!!?
                              Laura Becraft

                              Thought I would follow-up to this, we still saw this as an issue in 5.03 and it is still an issue in 6.01.  Only in 6.01 since "track" no longer exists, you get the same behavior if you are following someone in your inbox.  Again, it's only admins who see the Private Messages, but still, it would be nice if it was fixed.  We have several admins, so...

                              • Re: Private discussions not Private??!!?
                                tburak

                                Hi Ted - is this an issue in 5.0.4?

                                  • Re: Private discussions not Private??!!?
                                    Tracy Maurer

                                    We had a patch created and added to our system. I can't remember when the behavior was supposedly fixed (I did think it was 5.0.4), but I'm pretty sure we still have the issue in 5.0.5. We're shortly moving up to 6.0.2, and I surely hope it is resolved there. It obviously is not ideal, especially if you are getting emails from your inbox - emails don't show the private nature of the conversation, who who all the participants are, and it can surely be embarrassing.

                                    • Re: Private discussions not Private??!!?
                                      Nikki Bussard

                                      We're on 5.0.5 and it is still an issue. Another gotcha: when someone sends a DM and mentions a group, that DM shows up in the Activity Stream for the person who sent the DM. It *looks* like it is there for everyone, which causes complete panic for the sender. This happened to me a couple of weeks ago, and it was hard to tell what was happening, because it was also showing up in the Activity Stream for me. Very disconcerting.

                                        • Re: Private discussions not Private??!!?
                                          tburak

                                          Agree - i had a similar situation, where as an admin, I opened a private discussion (that I didn't realise was a private discussion until I opened it!)  The users were quite confused as to how it had been 'viewed' so many times, since only 2 people were involved in the discussion.

                                           

                                          I would be interested in having the patch for this - should I raise a support case?

                                          • Re: Private discussions not Private??!!?
                                            Tracy Maurer

                                            I'm less concerned about that specific behavior, Nikki, as it is that way for all content - the things that show up are specific to what you have permissions for. And to be honest, I think there are more pros to @mentions showing up in a place activity stream than cons. Once it happens the first time and you get past the initial consternation, you get how it works and can then use it to your benefit moving forward. For example, since a private discussion can be tricky to find again, if you've @mentioned a group that you and the participants belong to, it provides another location for you all to notice and remember to contribute.

                                              • Re: Private discussions not Private??!!?
                                                Nikki Bussard

                                                @Tracy, this particular discussions was extremely private. The woman had sent a DM to another member, mentioned an open group, and then saw it appear on our main home page in the activity stream, looking as if it were being broadcast to the world. I saw it as well. The woman practically had a heart attack and so did I, until I spent the 15-20 minutes experimenting to confirm that only the admins and the two people in the DM could see the message in the main Activity Feed. I posted this just so others are aware, and hopefully they will panic slightly less when they see this happen.

                                                  • RE: Private discussions not Private??!!?
                                                    wesley.goldstein

                                                    Nikki,

                                                      Everyone should be aware in this day and digital age that everything written electronically is subject to someone seeing it, much more so if it is done on a work computer/system. If this was so private that she did not want even the Admins seeing it, maybe she needs to reconsider what she post on a SOCIAL business site.

                                                     

                                                    Cheers,

                                                    Wes

                                                      • Re: RE: Private discussions not Private??!!?
                                                        tburak

                                                        Bit harsh Wes!

                                                         

                                                        I think the point is that users are struggling enough with the functionality - it can be a lot to take in!  And the last thing we need is people losing confidence in a system -

                                                         

                                                        If we are aware of the bugs / glitches, than we can be prepared for user queries -

                                                         

                                                        Tanya

                                                          • Re: Private discussions not Private??!!?
                                                            wesley.goldstein

                                                            Hi Tanya,

                                                              Not meant to be harsh, just reality. As private as email seems, a sys admin can look at any email that is sent on the company's exchange servers, and they frequently do for various reasons. I totally understand about adoption, as we are building our adoption as well, but I guess my point was that we aren't creating new issues with this system, they are just becoming more transparent. Sorry if that came accross the wrong way. I do agree that it is important to know the system and educate users; this obviously goes back to the adoption issue.

                                                             

                                                            Cheers,

                                                            Wes

                                                          • Re: RE: Private discussions not Private??!!?
                                                            Laura Becraft

                                                            Wes,

                                                             

                                                            Considering that users have the option to have "private" discussions, I think they should be able to have some assurance that it is "private."  Whether the system is touted as being "social" or not, shouldn't have anything to do with that assumption.  Jive "private" shouldn't mean anything different than what users have come to expect.

                                                             

                                                            Also, while system admins in general have the "god keys" to all content, it usually takes some effort and conscious decision to drill down to it.  That's not the case here.  I'm an admin (have been in other systems as well for years) and I admit, the first time something "private" ended up in my activity stream, it took me aback.  As intriguing as the topic is, I have to think before clicking and sometimes it isn't so obvious until after I've  clicked (add 1 to the view).  Admins have to be slightly more diligent in this system than in others.  We have to practice "safe admin" practices.

                                                             

                                                            We need to be able to assure our users that even though we may have access (which they already know, no one is that ignorant anymore), we won't abuse it. 

                                                             

                                                            Laura

                                                          • Re: Private discussions not Private??!!?
                                                            Roy Wilsker

                                                            We take the responsibility for protecting users' privacy very seriously, even if they're on our Business (not Social!) network. Admins have separate IDs that they must use when performing admin tasks. Otherwise, they must use their regular business IDs, which have no special privilege or access. We train them to be very conscious of the fact that they have extra visibility. For example, they are never allowed to respond to messages in groups for which, outside of their admin access, they would not have visibility. In fact, they are not allowed to go to such groups unless it is directly related to solving a specific issue.

                                                             

                                                            Business employees have the right to expect that when they use a company sponsored resource, they're privacy is respected and protected. Without this trust, users will take critical conversations out of the collaboration system we want them to use.

                                                            • Re: Private discussions not Private??!!?
                                                              Alison Paddock

                                                              Like Roy we have separate IDs for our Admins that are unique and associated with a person. Our admins also have regular IDs for their employee persona that also helps with troubleshooting any issues as they have a view into the system that is the same as the general user/employee. Our Admins only use their IDs for troubleshooting issues or for pulling reports so they do not follow any users and would not see this issue.

                                              • Re: Private discussions not Private??!!?
                                                thebryceswrite

                                                For those with admin access, there are three similar issues we have observed in 5.0.4 (again, limited to our small admin group, but it was at first surprising until we tested how broad the problem was to confirm it was only for our team):

                                                 

                                                • When a poll is created in a private / secret group, even if we don't have full access on to see the content of those groups, we can see the polls and the results. And we see activities around the poll in the Activity stream. So occasionally we see a poll we think is open, only to realize it is in a private/secret group.
                                                • When people use the draft / collaborator / approver workflow on wiki documents, we (admins) can see the content appear when a person hits publish but BEFORE the approver approves it (and we aren't added as collaborators). So we essentially get early access to draft versions before intended if the circumstances are right.
                                                • If you have the video module, we see in our activity stream when videos are added to private / secret groups that we don't' have access to. But we can't watch the videos. But we can see the titles and the descriptions.

                                                 

                                                Again, not showstoppers for us and the impact limited to our small team to whom we grant this access. But a similar type behavior that could lead some to be concerned or to interact with something they shouldn't if they don't know about those gaps.

                                                • Re: Private discussions not Private??!!?
                                                  MKTruett

                                                  I think it's really about understanding permissions and being able to explain that to others. The permissions in Jive are pretty solid. The general user can not see anything they are not allowed to see (others' private discussions, private groups they are not members of). The exception for this is those with higher admin rights. Guessing Christy has global admin rights which allow her to see just about anything. Anyone with admin access on just about any site can tell you that there is a level of discretion that comes with it. Know that with God powers, so to speak, you can see everything and respect that implied (if not actual) privacy.   It's a training opportunity.