41 Replies Latest reply: Aug 15, 2013 3:12 PM by a_behrens RSS

    Spaces vs. Groups

    Mlavoie

      After attending JiveWorld last week, I returned to work knowing that most of the folks that I spoke with take a completely different approach (than ours) to spaces and groups.

       

      Here's what we do:

      • Spaces available upon request, created by CM
      • Same with groups

       

      Here's what others do:

      • No spaces; one space; or one space/division
      • User created groups

       

       

      I'm trying to wrap my mind about how the 'other' space architectures work. 

       

      Here are my questions:

      1. If you only have one space, or one space per division, how does the CM know that a relevant group has been created?
      2. Doesn't every user create a secret or private group?  How does that affect collaboration?
      3. Has anyone every been far enough down the path of having 500+ spaces and converting to a new space architecture?  Any advice?
      4. How did you decide how to use spaces and groups?  What were the advantages and disadvantages?  What contributing factor most influenced your decision?
        • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
          Chris Comeaux

          Mlavoie,

           

          • Regarding your Q2.  Yes, there are many private groups, and it is bad for collaboration. 

            • In my experience ~ 80% of the groups are private.  This should decrease with time as people get more comfortable with Jive, but we are a large organization with very diverse businesses, and people will always be cautious about making a group open to everyone.

            • This would work OK if we had only a few large private groups that covered broad areas, but we instead have many small private groups dedicated to specific ideas.
              • This creates a problem with collaboration because most users are only interacting with a small group (5 to 20) in private groups.  Also, there are big problems when you consider what the situation is 2 years later when 1/4 of the people have left the company, the group owner is no longer there or working in that area (so requests to join may be lost), and new managers have joined that should have access, but don't.

           

          • Regarding Q4.  We are currently mainly using groups, but I think we are setting ourselves up for a problem in the future.  (see Re: How to make membership control easy for old groups? ).  In my view it is the ability to use permission "groups" that are the key difference between spaces and groups, not that we allow users to create groups but admins have to create spaces.  With permission "groups", the risk of important data becoming lost is much lower. 
            • I work in R&D, and I see all the time where people are looking for information from a project from a few years back.  With Jive Groups you will only find that old information if you happen to be a member of that group. 
            • This is especially a problem as new people join the team, but they don't have access to the 30+ completed projects that contain the important information
            • We can't use "projects" within a large group because while the projects are active we need tighter security on them (~ 10 users, not the ~ 100 from the larger group)
              • It may be possible to keep the information in a "project" in a small private group (10 users), and then move the project to the larger private group ("completed R&D projects", 100 users), but that gets more complicated for the end users
            • So my general idea on spaces vs. groups (which we don't practice yet) is....
              • If the information has to be private within a certain area of the company, no matter what, then it woud benefit from being in a space structure where permission groups can be used to make sure the right people have access
                • We initially wanted to avoid this because were were concerned about having a few large silos, but as a result I think we ended up with many small silos which is worse.
              • If the information needs to be shared across areas of the company (across businesses, privately or openly) then use groups
                • Let users create their own groups, but someone needs to monitor this to try to prevent there being many small private groups related to similar larger topics.
            • One important thing about spaces is that people don't see that they exist if they don't have access.  So the main dashboard may have 30 businesses listed as subspaces, but each user will only see the 1 or 2 that they have access to, so it won't be clutter.  I've advocated that each of our sites should have a space as well, so that when a user joins for the first time they see their core business, and their local site (and all the open content).

           

          Message was edited by: Chris Comeaux

          • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
            Jennifer Thorimbert

            What we have:

            • Communities reflect the company divisions and sub-divisions, and in some cases, locations or departments. These can only be created by community managers and admins. Our communities are either completely open, or are locked down to that specific division (so still have a very wide user base).
            • Groups can be created by users, and tend to be hobby-, interest- or project-focused.

             

            Sometimes, a department starts out with a group that they create on their own, and then will ask me to convert it to a community later. I will work with them to determine if that makes sense - do they need a group to be private to only their team?  The whole company will see their group if we convert it into a community. I have also once moved a departmental group into a community because they needed to utilize sub-communities. Their taxonomy was deeper than what just categories could provide.

             

            1. I keep an eye on groups that are created, and if I see two that are similar, I send both group owners an email to let them know about each other's group, and ask if I can help move content over from one to the other.
            2. There are lots of private groups, but I don't necessarily see this as hindering collaboration. Sometimes people want to collaborate with the 10 people that sit near them, and feel more comfortable with that than if the entire company could see their conversations. (And, in fact, some people won't collaborate at all unless they have this assurance.)
            3. Hmm, no. Wish I could help you here. Anytime that two or more groups have to be merged, or a group into a community, I always offer to help with the content migration. I also usually coordinate a few volunteers, and we pick a time to work on this together - I will do the re-naming, merging, deleting of spaces/groups while they start on moving content, and then I join in and help with the content, too.
            4. I am not actually sure - the company was already using Jive with the basic community sitemap set up, and ability to have user-created groups, before my sub-division got on board and I was hired.
            • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
              Kevin Jones

              This is how we have it set up:

               

              One space (with a few subspaces).  Only the CM can create.

              Anyone can create Groups, but only OPEN or MEMBERS-ONLY Groups.  No PRIVATE or SECRET groups can be created by users.  They have to come to us and give us a good business justification for why they need to be hidden.  And there are some. 

               

              During a pilot we let them have access to private & secret, and they almost all defaulted to that.  So we had to put a stop to that ASAP.  Now, if they can give us a justifiable reason they can have one.  And this approach has not stopped people from creating communities.

               

              I refuse to create Spaces that mimic the organizational structure.  Talk about perpetuating the silo'd structure we are trying to bridge!  If they create a Group for their org, then fine, but I don't advocate it.  There are good uses, but mostly people want to use this structured to become even more silo'd.

                • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                  John Ellis

                  We use spaces as the functional breakdown within our company, while groups are freeform created by anyone at anytime.  What we've found is that giving people within that functional department the ability to create/manage content has worked extremely well when coupled with all other employees outside of that department being able to collaborate on various topics.  Allowing the freedom to create groups (regardless of it's security - private, secret, open, or members only) has proven to give space administrators and system administrators more time to monitor the use of the various elements, rather than spending 50% of your time deciding on whether or not the group should be private or open.  In most cases, people want to share information (I call BS on claims that "no on in my company does") and until now, haven't had a means to share information in a way that didn't take away from their job responsibilities.

                   

                  We copied the departments for one reason - we want the business to have a voice into the users day to day jobs.  Think of this as business-to-employee information (B2E).  Groups however are the employee-to-employee (E2E) communication that gives the business insight into what's really important to their employees and gives them opportunity to catch that 1 million dollar idea. 

                   

                  When we first launched I wanted to be the czar over all of the space and group creation, but in the end realized that this is a SOCIAL enterprise system, and with that, it requires that the consumers define the use for 75% of the system.  If you do this, you'll find that your user adoption, internal, external, and inter departmental communication increases 10 fold.

                   

                  Just my $.02

                    • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                      Nikki Bussard

                      This is an interesting discussion. We currently are attempting to use groups as "lobbies"--we have renamed them as such--which essentially are a form of navigation to relevant groups. However, this hasn't worked out that great so far, and we're seriously considering getting rid of spaces altogether. We would use groups designated as "lobbies" and linked from the home page or global nav for our original purpose.

                       

                      There are a few reasons for this. Mainly, no matter what we call them, people see spaces as being official and somehow better, so if they are at the Director level or above, they tend to think they need a space. Just because. We do have the ability to decide who gets a space/lobby, but we have seen in almost every case that as soon as someone gets that power, they realize they can also create sub-spaces and we get a hierarchy explosion that makes no sense. (Our philosophy has been that we should have no more than ~3 levels in spaces). Another problem is that lobbies/spaces have no concept of membership and don't show the owner names by default. They look like publishing vehicles, not social vehicles. People don't want to post in them because they don't know who they're talking to. By the same token, the space owners generally get frustrated because they keep asking who is joining their lobby and there is no easy way to tell this. As a result, we've ended up moving several of our lobbies to groups.

                       

                      I have a litany of complaints against spaces and am happy to share more if anyone is interested. In theory I believe they have a place, but in practice they seem to be overly riddled with issues. Generally speaking, I feel like they are crutches for people (and I have been one of them, so no judgment here) who are not ready to dive in head first to social.

                        • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                          John Ellis

                          The biggest problem you're going to face if you choose not to use a space, is that the company loses it's voice.  "silo-ing" in spaces doesn't happen because of the inherent functionality of Jive.

                            • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                              John Ellis

                              Also, you don't have as much administrative control over the content in groups as you do in regards to spaces.  Which is a major downfall.

                                • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                  Akiko_san

                                  We have spaces as means to help users navigate. We use only 5 spaces managed by Admin (News, Ideas, Help, Company, Life), which names determine what type of groups users may find there. It help searching, if, e.g. they want to find all groups related to company departments and activities, they go to Company.

                                  Groups are more flexible and user-friendly, to my mind. Users learn to manage them easily. As for privacy, we set no restrictions, and  I see that people make groups ‘Secret’ only while they are constructing them. I enjoy this because it means that our users embraced social nature of the system, and are not hiding content in their smaller groups.

                                  Some of our groups are function-related, e.g. Office Administration. I think it’s useful, because this is like a single point of contact for users with this function of HR.

                                  As for administrative control, I don’t think we should have too much of it. In Ukraine, have special policy, where do’s and don’ts are written, and if I see any breach thereof, I simply address to the specific person with this rule. If possible, I offer solution.

                                   

                                  Kind regards,

                                  Sasha Kryshtapovych

                          • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                            Chris Comeaux

                            Kevin,

                             

                            I like the idea of only allowing the users to only freely create open groups (by the way, we've hidden the members-only option, since we are using internally, and people were misunderstanding that choice to mean private).  If they want a private group they need to talk to someone first.

                             

                            If Groups had some type of "permission group" membership, this would be a great way to avoid the need for a Space structure that I argue for in the earlier post.  My focus in that post was how to prevent important content from becoming lost over time.  Would like to use "security groups" for access to social groups

                             

                            How it could work is...

                            • R&D Group A, team 1 wants a private group for their project
                            • They go to the community manager, show says OK, just add "R&D Group A Management" and "R&D Group A Senior Engineers" to your group.
                            • 3 years down the road, when the project is over, and people have scattered, the project participants, and the key mangement and senior people (half of whom have changed roles in those 3 years) still have access to that content
                              • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                Tim Gray

                                We're in the process of designing our community architecture - from a blank slate.  We're leaning towards groups for most use cases.  Perhaps a Help Space and a couple of others, but I want to make sure I have a complete understanding of the differences - If someone could point me to some content on point I'd appreciate (I did search for a couple of minutes).  here's what I know so far:

                                 

                                Spaces:

                                     no option for private secret etc

                                     sub spaces are possible

                                     can merge spaces

                                     projects can be in a space

                                     requires admin intervention to create

                                 

                                Groups:

                                     public, private sectret etc.  (we are thinking initiallhy of disabling secret groups.)

                                     can't nest

                                     can't merge (strikes me as an odd omission - I'd think it would be more useful to merge groups than spaces)

                                     projects can be in a group

                                     anyone can create a group

                                    

                                I suspect there are some permission/governance functions I'm missing...

                                  • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                    Kevin Crossman

                                    Spaces:

                                         no option for private secret etc

                                         requires admin intervention to create

                                    a) Depends on what you mean by private/secret.   Spaces have much more granular permissions, so you can create spaces that have very limited access. Moreover, if the Jive user interface, you do not see and cannot find/search for spaces that you don't have permissions to see. So they are in effect "private".  Spaces don't use an invitation model like groups do, however, if that's what you're references.

                                     

                                    b) Spaces can be created by system admins as well as existing space admins (those with "full control" permissions).  As noted elsewhere, this can sometimes be a problem if the local space admins are not very smart with their sub-space create and/or treat subspaces as equivalent to folders.

                              • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                Andrew Kratz

                                We have one space (the community space) and 1300 groups after 6 months.

                                 

                                McGraw-Hill has an internal collaboration implementation where we replaced our corporate Intranet home page with Jive. We are in progress to convert a significant portion of our Intranet sites over to Jive as well.  For us, we made a decsion early on not to use any spaces.  We found that for new users(starting with the core team) that it is very confusing as to what a space is versus a group.  We also didn't want to replicate our Intrnaet so we wanted groups to avoid the control thing of locking things down as you can do in Spaces.  Having said that we do have communication people and department mgmt that have Intranet sites and do want to make sure the "official" views and messages of management are front and center.  We found a number of ways to do that using social groups and have not had a lot of pushback.   Some tips and tricks to do this include:

                                 

                                • Using featured content to highlight the key management blogs and messages.
                                • Using "view a document" widget to create a news feed that communication can have complete control over including linking to stories outside of our Jive instance, ordering, formatting the way the want etc..
                                • Using Formatted text and HTML widgets to create very nice graphical spaces for images/brand as well as functional features such as a key video, buttons to do certain functions etc...
                                • Use projects where "sub-group" segregation is required
                                • Use documents as their wiki or groups that want the web 1.0 "page after page of web pages"
                                • Use social groups or a formatted text widget with hard coded groups for related groups.

                                 

                                It is certainly not perfect, but having our Intranet and high level business units leverage groups does also allow individuals to create and contribute to a 2 way conversations.  It puts people way outside their comfort zone at first, but it is being embraced.

                                 

                                So a minority viewpoint, I know, but thought I would share.

                                 

                                - Andrew

                                 

                                Always happy to discuss Jive implementations with other clients...just reach out.

                                  • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                    Nikki Bussard

                                    We have the same view as Andrew, as I mentioned earlier. These are great tips, and we generally follow these as well. Just to reiterate one point that Andrew touched on: for the people who insist on some type of hierarchy, you can achieve one level of hierarchy by creating projects under groups. Projects are essentially nothing more than groups with calendars and tasks. Remove these if you like and you get a subgroup. This option has helped us a lot when talking people down from the "I have to have a space" position.

                                     

                                    One question about only allowing admins to create private and secret groups: how do you achieve this? Is it just a matter of hiding those options in the template? If so, I'm assuming you wold still have the option in the admin console?

                                     

                                    Nikki

                                  • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                    Erin Haines

                                    Thought I'd share how we have organization our community in terms of Groups vs Spaces:

                                     

                                    Spaces = Work/Company. They represent corporate organization with set Spaces for each Department/Discipline, as well as Account teams

                                    Groups  = Social/Culture. Anyone can create (Open/Members Only) for any topic - except our client work.

                                     

                                    This organization has worked, especially in terms our our Account Team Spaces - We have a policy that all our client related projects and collaboration on work must live in those Spaces. this allows us create and manage controlled user permission groups for the Account Spaces - as some of our clients require their work to be kept confidential (i.e. we have some use cases where we have competing clients from same industry). Our Department Spaces remain open to foster cross functional collaboration. We do allow for private sub-Spaces (and/or Groups) as needed, but it must be requested to our community managers; we try to keep these at a minimum, but sometimes they are necessary.

                                     

                                    When we first launched, getting everyone onboard with the Spaces was a challenge,  as everyone quickly started creating groups - basically re-creating the existing silos. Now that our Spaces are up and running, they are getting more traffic and I found that although they do represent our corporate structure and are more structured than groups, they are working and producing meaningful discussions and collaboration amongst our teams. I think they will get even better when we move to J5 and you can see who is following the Spaces.

                                     

                                    The only complaint I have with Spaces, is that any Space admin can create sub-Spaces and as people are still not used to the software & using categories, they sometimes go bananas with creating sub-Spaces!

                                    • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                      Kevin Crossman

                                      Other groups vs. spaces discussions here in the community

                                       

                                      Groups vs. Spaces in v4.5 (a decision matrix)

                                      Strategy for using Groups and Spaces

                                        • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                          disaacs

                                          Our company is keeping spaces to a limit (currently a10-15).  However, we have recently been discussing limiting the number to five spaces....very similar to @Akiko_san above. You can tell by all the varied answers that the wonderful benefit of a socio-collaborative tool is that there is no true right answer. I suppose there are best practices.

                                           

                                          We asked ourselves what is our primary reason for getting Jive? We have a very strong SharePoint culture and also have a nice intranet. So using Jive for document storage and an intranet, is not really what we were after. Our objective was to engage employees, have an environment for employees to share innovative ideas and to build an easy to search knowledge base.  If we eventually use Jive for our intranet, that would be great...but that was not one of our core objectives going in.  With a desire to increase communication, connect employees and strengthen collaboration - focusing on groups made sense.

                                           

                                          We allow groups to be open, members only, private or secret. We are a manufacturing company with strong background in engineering and IT. Engineers and IT  users really like permissions and hierarchical structures. But they are embracing groups with the simple permission architecture. As my good friend @nbussard mentioned above, some of our uses have begun to use projects within groups to gain one level of hierarchy.

                                           

                                          In a nutshell.....

                                          Only the CM can create a space and we keep those limited. In my opinion too many structured spaces can weigh down the social part of the platform.

                                          Anyone can create a group. Don't be afraid of conversations...they are already taking place outside of social media. Besides if someone starts a group that the company doesn't seem necessary, it has been my experience that other users won't see it necessary either and the group will die. Simple permissions for groups is nice. We use secret groups for R&D and negotiation projects. To get a plan...ask yourself what are your core purposes for Jive.

                                        • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                          Rob.Caldera

                                          I've read a lot on here and in other threads about the difference between Groups and Spaces, but most seems to refer to Jive 4.5 or earlier. Now that the project functionality is available in groups, can anyone tell me what the difference is between Groups and Spaces OTHER than Spaces allowing for hierarchical navigation through the creation of sub-spaces. If that's the only difference then that's helpful to know. When trying to explain the difference to people the hierarchical feature is the main thing I mention but I feel like I've possibly been leaving something else out, but perhaps not.

                                           

                                          We only have one Space (for now) for the whole company and are evaluating the need to possibly allow the creation of additional ones (by request only) so that's why I need to know how to explain it properly to my stakeholders. The advice in here on strategy for using both has been very helpful. I just need to know the key differences in features. Thanks!

                                            • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                              Kevin Crossman

                                              1) Hierachy

                                              2) Different membership/permissions model

                                                - Groups - can be self-joining (open or member only), or managed directly in the UI (private or secret groups) rather than in the admin console as with Spaces.

                                              - Permissions are less granular - if you're a member you can edit any content item in the group. With spaces you can restrict who can edit Blogs vs. discussions, etc.

                                              - Permissions are only individual based - not based on membership in security groups. So, groups would not be a good option for a "private" group for a large section of an internal organization - since each user would have to individually register.

                                                • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                                  Rob.Caldera

                                                  Kevin this is very helpful. Thanks. I thought the differences had to with some more permission settings but I wasn't sure. So in Spaces you can restrict who edits just about any content, while in Groups only Documents allow you to set permissions? See my reply to Nikki because it's a similar question.

                                                • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                                  Nikki Bussard

                                                  Hi Rob,

                                                  The biggest difference is in how the permissions are set. For Groups, the permissions are based on membership. That is, other than the group admins, everyone pretty much has the same permissions, which include the ability to create any content and in some cases (like documents) edit it as well. In Spaces, you can set much more fine-grained permissions similar to what you would be used to with SharePoint or other type of system.

                                                   

                                                  If we were to make heavy use of Spaces, we would do so for pages that were formerly housed on our intranet: things like policies and processes that everyone needs to see but only a few should be able to edit. For collaboration among peers or departments, or any kind of ad-hoc collaboration, groups usually makes sense as there is no sense of hierarchy in terms of the permissions.

                                                   

                                                  HTH.

                                                  Nikki

                                                    • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                                      Rob.Caldera

                                                      Hi Nikki,

                                                       

                                                      Thanks for this but I have a question on the permissions topic, as it relates to documents. In groups (in Jive 5) I can create a document and select who has access to edit it. So, in the example of policies, which is something that has come up here, it seems that I can set permissions the same way for the policy whether it's in a group or space. Any clarification on that? Am I misunderstanding something?

                                                    • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                                      Jennifer Thorimbert

                                                      Some minor differences that actually have big impact for one of our business units deciding between groups and spaces right now:

                                                       

                                                      • Groups have the ability for the admin/manager to message all members. Communities do not.
                                                      • Communities allow comment moderation on documents, but groups do not. (Groups do allow comment moderation on blog posts, though.)

                                                       

                                                      I've always thought of the main differences as the sub-spaces, how members are managed (if you are setting up a private community - if it is open, this isn't relevant). These other smaller differences have just recently come up as important for us.

                                                        • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                                          Rob.Caldera

                                                          Hi Jennifer, our Enterprise Community Manager has the ability to message all members of our Jive environment since it's all one giant space and he is the administrator of that. However, you say that in Communities this isn't possible. I assume by Communities you mean Spaces. We're on Jive 5, perhaps that's the difference.Can you clarify? Thanks.

                                                           

                                                          The moderation aspect is another important difference. We discourage moderation in blogs since those comments would all go to the ECM of the Space and not to the group owner, since it's an administrative feature only of a Space. In fact, moderation may be one of the driving forces for us to allow another Space -- for sensitive topics around ethics and compliance, where it may be necessary. We wouldn't encourage it anywhere else though.

                                                            • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                                              Jennifer Thorimbert

                                                              Hi Rob - yes, sorry, we call spaces "communities" internally. A space admin doesn't have the funtion to message all members of a community (since communities don't really have members) as you do with groups. (Yes, there are other ways to get info into a space's followers' Activity or Inbox in Jive 5, but some people are still stuck in the "but I need to send an email" mindset.)

                                                                • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                                                  Nikki Bussard

                                                                  I have to say that the ability to send an email to everyone in the group/space has been a big issue for us. This is one of the main reasons we don't use Spaces much, and why I have transitioned several communities off of Spaces to Groups. Unfortunately, it's also one of the aspects that people tend to overlook until they've seeded all their content.

                                                                   

                                                                  I still think Spaces would be good to use for the traditional transactional side of your intranet (many Jive customers are doing this), while Groups nearly always work well for collaboration. As you pointed out, Rob, you can set permissions on a single document, so most use cases are covered in groups. To clarify further, in Spaces you can create an entire permission group that allows you to assign rights at a granular level on content types as a whole. So, you can decide who can create or edit blog posts, for example.

                                                                   

                                                                  Interestingly, I have never noticed that the moderation options are different between the two place types, so that is good to know. We rarely use moderation, and instead rely on the "report abuse" feature to allow people to flag any posts they think might be inappropriate. Generally speaking, I think turning moderation on discourages activity, but obviously there are certain industries, companies, or subject areas that would be exceptions to this rule.

                                                                    • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                                                      Rob.Caldera

                                                                      The ability to create entire permission groups in Spaces is interesting. I can easily see how that could be helpful here, especially for some risk management groups. However, I just came from a meeting where a key person on our team expressed concern over creating multiple spaces saying something to the effect of, "the day we allow multiple Spaces, is the day that Spark (our Jive instance) dies." The concern is that allowing a hierarchical feature like Spaces will cause a very conservative organization like ours to go back to our very siloed, top down mindset. And we've only just started our social business journey, so it's not as if we've made that much progress in this area anyway and Spaces might give us an excuse to continue the old ways. I think a balance could be found but I can definitely understand my co-workers concern. I may need to learn how to work around it.

                                                                      • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                                                        Jennifer Thorimbert

                                                                        Nikki Bussard - we rarely use comment moderation, as well, and most of the groups who had it turned on have since turned it off as they found they were approving virtually all the comments, anyway, so it wasn't worth the extra effort. However, I find that with some new user groups within our system, people *think* they want comment moderation. I discourage it and explain that most people have turned it off, etc., but it seems to be a safety blanket for some of those who are uncertain as they step into the social space.

                                                                      • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                                                        Rob.Caldera

                                                                        I see. Our admin sends announcements into our Jive Inbox (system updates,etc.) so if you have your preferences set to get those by email too then you'll get it both ways. It's not the same as having the "company voice" for official comms but it is one way to reach all users.

                                                                          • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                                                            Nikki Bussard

                                                                            I think reaching all users is a little different from what I'm talking about. Owners of groups want the ability to email everyone in their group—not the whole company. Not everyone who is a member of the group follows, tracks, or receives email notifications. The ability to send them email directly reassures group owners when they feel it's important to get the attention of all the members.

                                                                              • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                                                                Rob.Caldera

                                                                                I got it now. We're trying to discourage that. Even prior to implementing Jive we've been trying to cut down our internal emails by creating a site on our intranet for all broad communications, customized to the individual. Email is a hard habit to break though.

                                                                    • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                                                      Frank Gebhardt

                                                                      This is a great discussion!

                                                                       

                                                                      I'd like to add one element that became important to us after a year on using Jive. Some people in the organisation are natural web 2.0 natives. They love searching for content. They couldn't care less (to be blunt) if the content lives in a space or group. Then we have the other group. These guys think in systems and structure or processes. They are natural "Navigators". Search is not their first or natural way in finding stuff. No, they love the structure that is offered via spaces.

                                                                       

                                                                      Hence we cater for both types. Not always easy and we regularly migrate stuff that originated in a group into a space later to fit it into the demands of culture, strategy and process.

                                                                      • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                                                        Grant Costello

                                                                        Groups vs Spaces can be confusing to some (especially as our site is also used by our clients) so we describe our site as being like a Hotel. The info below help members understand where to post stuff and why. We even have a cool graphic to illustrate this.

                                                                        Here's what we say...

                                                                         

                                                                        Groups - A private Group would be like your company’s own private rooms or floor. Only invited guests, and people you know, will be able to enter and see and hear what you have to say - strangers are not allowed. Some ON-Brand Partners or Blacksmith people are also likely to be in private groups, to help with questions and provide guidance as they would in person.


                                                                        Special Interest Groups - Dependent on your role and personal interests, you may choose to join a Special Interest Group (Contact Centre, HR etc). These are like the Hotel Conference rooms where you can meet like-minded people. Just ‘Browse’ to see what Groups are available


                                                                        Spaces - Open Spaces can be compared to the Hotels lobby, restaurant, and conference centre where people from the wider community chat on topics of shared interest.  Here, you can socialise with a range of different people from other organisations - many of whom you may not have previously known, but potentially you can learn a lot from each other. Gary Hamels comment is relevant here "My fundamental belief is that if a company wants to see the future, 80% of what it is going to have to learn, will be from outside it's own industry."


                                                                        Personal Profile - This is like open-mic night in the Hotel bar. Under your own Personal Profile e.g. Mark Smith, you can create a Personal Blog and Updates which are open for all to see – this is your own space to share questions, concepts and articles important to you and you think the wider community would appreciate.

                                                                          • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                                                            Tim Gray

                                                                            "

                                                                            Spaces - Open Spaces can be compared to the Hotels lobby, restaurant, and conference centre where people from the wider community chat on topics of shared interest.  Here, you can socialise with a range of different people from other organisations - many of whom you may not have previously known, but potentially you can learn a lot from each other. Gary Hamels comment is relevant here "My fundamental belief is that if a company wants to see the future, 80% of what it is going to have to learn, will be from outside it's own industry."

                                                                             

                                                                            Couldn't this also be a pubic group?  We are leaning stongly towards groups for now and leaving Spaces for the point in time when/if we want to think about migrating our Intranet to Jive - or at least a use case that more resembles a controlled intranet than a user driven group.

                                                                              • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                                                                Grant Costello

                                                                                Could be but because people to actually do something to join a Public Group, we have gone for Spaces where there is no such requirement. We also like the fact that we can use the Spaces vs Groups titles to help describe/delineate what is an open shared space for all vs an area that is permission based.

                                                                            • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                                                              a_behrens

                                                                              A year later I'm responding so I have no idea if this will get viewed. We are working through a case now where a request to start a Space or "page" as we call them was requested in lieu of an existing group. Instead of a yes/no we are going to review the goals/objectives/requirements/and performance indicators of the requestor and make the decision. Because the initial request will require custom development from our developer we have to proceed with caution.

                                                                               

                                                                              The goal is build a sort of "decision matrix" or flow chart that will help us and our audience figure out the best possible solution - Space? Group? Sub-Space? or simply a widget? If anyone is interested we'll publish the document we end up creating.

                                                                              • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                                                                a_behrens

                                                                                Ok team,

                                                                                 

                                                                                Below is my first crack at a decision matrix. Feel free to comment, add, edit, test, break, love, hate, fix. Let's practice what we preach and crowdsource this.

                                                                                Audience: Any community member requesting a specific environment.

                                                                                Objective: Create a simple tool to help you CM and user decide on the appropriate tactic.

                                                                                 

                                                                                decision matrix sample.png

                                                                                  • Re: Spaces vs. Groups
                                                                                    Kevin Crossman

                                                                                    You know your organization better than I do but I feel like most of the items there could be equally addressed by Spaces or Groups, so am not sure why they would be separate line items.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Limiting access to a managed set of users is certainly a key aspect of spaces, compared to groups there Private/Secret group membership must be actively accepted by a member before they are granted access to the container.