-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
jemjanikAug 23, 2012 1:04 PM (in response to tmaurer)
+1000 I REALLY miss the screen in 4.5 where you could see all the current notifications on at from what level.
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
tmaurerAug 23, 2012 2:45 PM (in response to jemjanik)
That page was really problematic for those of us with a lot of content, and actually never returned for me personally. So I understand why it is gone. But why not something as simple as:
- A way to turn off notification from within each email. Then, you don't really need to know why you got it, just click the link to turn it off.
- Alternatively, a line in the email that tells you why you got it so that you know how to turn it off: "You received this email because you are set to receive email notifications from Tracy Maurer Blog."
As I write this, I'm realizing that maybe the really difficult part of this is that there could be multiple reasons for you to get an email. You could be set to get emails from a place, and the content, and the person. But there has GOT to be a way to get to the root of these things more easily. People can't be expected to go through a 4-step process for each and every email they get just to turn things off.
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
nbussardAug 23, 2012 5:04 PM (in response to tmaurer)
+1000 more. "Spam" is one of the top reasons people cite for not engaging in our Jive community. It turns people from ambivalent to haters. Please address this, Jive.
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
mrowbory Aug 24, 2012 7:00 AM (in response to nbussard)I agree, it can be a nightmare.
On an external community with 100k+ users, not only was the email server going into meltdown, but some users were practically on the verge of trying to sue the company because we couldn't stop them getting emails.
There needs to be a clear breakdown on the email of how why it was received and how to turn it off - surely this must be fairly simple to do - the system must know what event triggered it to be sent.
-
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
bjewell Aug 24, 2012 7:59 AM (in response to tmaurer)To your #1, we're working on a customization we call mute thread that will let you reply to the email notification and just put "Mute" on the first line, and it will stop notifications for this piece of content. You can always go back into Jive and turn them back on from the Actions menu. It's only being scoped for individual content notifications at this time though.
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
tmaurerAug 24, 2012 8:05 AM (in response to bjewell)
Sounds GREAT, Brice. And when you've got it done, Jive should pay you for it and implement it across the board.
-
-
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
cflanagan17 Aug 24, 2012 6:12 AM (in response to tmaurer)This is something I continue to tell Jive is a big problem. I don't think they understand the scale of an enterprise where we have thousands of groups and collaboration areas.
I did share my feedback extensively with Jive last summer about the loss of a subscription management page in Jive 5. I was hoping they would address this in Jive 6. An individual must simply be able to see, in one place, all of their subscriptions - and be able to fine tune or tailor it.
Email is one of those double edged swords. It's a very important alert and signal. But for very busy, large volume communities (like ours, where we're over 7 M activities a month) it can be overwhelming. I wish I could set digests myself. I continue to get issues raised from our users even today about the issue of not being able to set "digests" preferences. I thought that would come in a future release and I realize it won't.
Josh Richau any thoughts on improvements we should see in Jive 6 on this?
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
jemjanikAug 24, 2012 7:17 AM (in response to cflanagan17)
As an idea of scale... my community today is roughly 68k members with 22k active. The day I turned off 99% of email was when we only had 10k members because I logged in one morning and had over 200 emails from Engage.
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
bjewell Aug 24, 2012 7:57 AM (in response to cflanagan17)+1 for a new subscription management page. And it has to be more usable than what is in 4.5
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
AmandaSAug 24, 2012 9:08 AM (in response to bjewell)
People ask for this all the time – one simple place (our users want it in their profile area) where they can see what they are subscribed to and turn things on/off. Clean, clear and simple.
-
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
josh.richau Aug 24, 2012 8:08 AM (in response to cflanagan17)The main improvements in Jive 6 are the advent of the custom streams and the email settings being attached to those streams. On upgrade to 6, there will be a special "Email Notifications" stream generated from the old "receive email" subsystem. After that, users can organize their streams and choose which streams they want to get email on. Because the stream builder shows which people and places are being followed, it is easy to see what might be causing the email to arrive in your email inbox.
We have customers using this system now in our cloud environment and haven't heard complaints like we did in 5.0 - but of course these still tend to be smaller installations so we'll need to keep an eye on it as 6.0 gets more widely adopted.
Until then, I think you all have seen this, but Trisha put together a nice chart for diagnosing email problems here: Jive 5 Email Notifications: Where are they coming from? How can I turn them off?
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
Ted HoptonAug 24, 2012 8:12 AM (in response to josh.richau)
It's a nice chart, yes, but it requires a PhD almost to follow it...
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
josh.richau Aug 24, 2012 8:16 AM (in response to Ted Hopton)Yes, we did simplify in 6 - but 5 suffered from having both the legacy email system to maintain granularity of functionality and a hint of the new stream system (but without enough streams to fully replace the old stuff).
-
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
tmaurerAug 24, 2012 8:20 AM (in response to josh.richau)
Will the special "Email Notifications" stream also give an indication of why those emails were sent? Because if not, then it doesn't solve the legacy problem. I had honestly thought the legacy issue would be a "momentary bump" in the road, which is why I've kept quiet about it till now. But we upgraded in April, and the stream of questions/concerns/complaints hasn't let up.
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
josh.richau Aug 24, 2012 8:24 AM (in response to tmaurer)Tracy - yes, if you go to the stream builder you will see the people and places in the list of things that make up the stream. And you will be able to stop following them in that stream or even turn of email on that stream altogether and start fresh!
-
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
John SchwillerAug 24, 2012 3:34 PM (in response to josh.richau)
What I did on my J4T with approx 450 users to fix the email problem.
First ask Support to set defaults to my specification:
Note the for the first Inbox setting there is no sys prop which is exceptionally tedious.
Create 450 accounts manually. Login as each one and set the top entry to Off. Then send a manually created invite email.
This way I didn't get anyone complaining about being swamped with email.
Clearly this isn't going to be possible in a Production environment. I'd suggest there is a new sys prop added.
But +1 to all the other requirements.
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
tmaurerAug 27, 2012 7:13 AM (in response to John Schwiller)
Yeah, the biggest issue is the legacy of upgrading from 4.5 to 5.0. As I said above, there is no easy way for people to figure it out or to flip one switch to shut off. I hope the 6.0 stream thing Josh mentioned will work, but that is still a long way off.
-
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
behoppe333 Aug 27, 2012 7:05 AM (in response to josh.richau)Hi Josh,
Do you know how I can get permission to view the document you referenced? I get a "not authorized" error message when I click on it. thanks for any tips
Josh Richau wrote:
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
josh.richau Aug 27, 2012 7:10 AM (in response to behoppe333)That is in the Jive Customers group. I imagine Ryan Rutan can help you with getting access.
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
tmaurerAug 27, 2012 7:16 AM (in response to behoppe333)
That is in the https://community.jivesoftware.com/groups/jive-customers group (tried to insert with @mention, but #fail at finding it). You need to request to join the group and wait for approval.
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
Ryan Rutan Aug 27, 2012 7:23 AM (in response to tmaurer)Tracy, a little trick ... put in an underscore "_" at the end for short place names like this. It helps in Jive 5, and I know that I've already seen changes in Jive Cloud that make this tip not necessary.
The specified item was not found. =)
-
-
-
-
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
tmaurerAug 24, 2012 6:24 AM (in response to tmaurer)
Something I forgot to mention as a reason behind this:
In the pre-5.0 world, when someone joins a group, they are by default signed up to get emails from the group. When you upgrade to 5.0, and people start going back to opt out of emails, they opt out at the group level. What we have discovered is that they ALSO need to opt out separately from the group BLOG. This is not obvious or intuitive. And typically, group blogs are not very active. So what happens is this:
- Today, I opt out of the group.
- Two weeks from now, someone posts a blog, and I get email from that blog post plus every comment that is made to it.
- I go back to the group overview page and see that I have opted out of emails.
- I go to the blog POST and see that I'm not signed up to receive emails there.
- I'm stumped.
- I send my site admin a confused or pissed off email in which I neglect to mention that it is a blog post in a group I'm a member of that is at issue.
- It takes way too long to diagnose, because sysadmins have no way to review a user's email prefs.
- As I user, I'm frustrated and fed up. I don't have the time or patience to deal with this.
- As a sysadmin I'm frustrated, because I also don't have the time or patience to deal with this.
I hope that helps make it a little more clear. The big thing here is that something that was already a bit frustrating in the 4.0 world has become magnified upon upgrading to 5.0 because of the default group email setting and the fact that the group and group blog were set separately.
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
Ted HoptonAug 24, 2012 8:02 AM (in response to tmaurer)
If this had been designed to be an Easter Egg it could hardly have been trickier to figure this out...
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
cflanagan17 Aug 24, 2012 8:28 AM (in response to Ted Hopton)I feel like we still need to control global settings, group settings and individual page settings. It seems like Jive 6 still will not allow this.
-
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
crossman Aug 24, 2012 8:38 AM (in response to tmaurer)Tracy Maurer wrote:
What we have discovered is that they ALSO need to opt out separately from the group BLOG. This is not obvious or intuitive.
That's got to be a bug... right, Jive? Olivia Teich
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
AmandaSAug 24, 2012 12:18 PM (in response to crossman)
It seems like it could be a bug or an oversight because blogs are considered places. It should be automatic that if you unsubscribe to the parent place container (the group) you should automatically also be unsubscribed from the blog place because it is associated to the group.
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
tmaurerAug 24, 2012 12:51 PM (in response to AmandaS)
My guess is that what we are running into here is a conflict of interests. I can see that people might want to get emails JUST from the blog, but nothing else in a group/space/project. My thinking on the way this should work is that if you sign up for the group, you get everything. If you drop email from the group, you lose everything. You should never be automatically signed up specifically for the blog - if you personally select the blog, great, and that is a valid option. But don't add or subtract the blog automatically.
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
cflanagan17 Aug 27, 2012 8:29 AM (in response to tmaurer)Flexibility and personalization here is key. Like Tracy mentions - don't do all or nothing.
Let individuals override - and then let them manage their subscriptions in one place so they can see the "expected' behavior and change it in a way that delivers "expected" new results.
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
tmaurerAug 27, 2012 10:36 AM (in response to cflanagan17)
And give admins the ability to see people's settings. Even if I can't edit them, at least let me see what they are so I can help. Yes, with some of them I could do a screenshare. But sometimes the person is in a timezone 12 hours off from you so screenshare isn't a great option. Or they are using their mobile device. Make it easy to support. Please.
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
AmandaSAug 29, 2012 3:16 PM (in response to tmaurer)
+1 to Admin being able to see user settings. The other thing I would add to this thread about email is that people would also love to have an OOTO type feature so they can suspend email while they're out but maintain all their settings and just re-enable it when they return. Right now we tell people to use Outlook features to put their community mail into folders (they don't like that). If people are already feeling they're getting too much email and they don't understand why they're getting some of it, you can imagine how frustrated they are to go on PTO and come back to thousands of mail messages... I'm mentioning this hear because I think all these email topics need to be considered collectively to improve the overall end user experience.
-
-
-
-
-
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
england_kAug 29, 2012 3:28 PM (in response to tmaurer)
I am 100% behind this we've been baffled by which notifications trump others, we asked Jive for documentation but it appears there isn't any. We gave up since we move to 5 (in less than 2 days) but after the noise of the upgrade dies down I know the question will come up once again. Our power users are already asking where is the list of content I'm signed up to get notifications for.
Will this improve in 6? Is there documentation to explain the hierarchy and +1 for admins being able to see users set up to help troubleshoot.
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
John SchwillerAug 29, 2012 3:41 PM (in response to england_k)
Not aware of anything on seeing what is generating emails in 6 over and above what you can see on https://preview-jive.jiveon.com/inbox
We turn as much email off as possible but appreciate that not all users want to do that.
I'm starting to wonder if a big data approach might assist given the complexities of what might generate each email. By which I mean respond to the email meaning 'not interested', but that just informs an algorithm which gradually learns across a number of responses and then that makes a focussed suggestion which is presented as 'Jive thinks you want to turn off this setting'.
My thought being that after 3 or 4 or 5 of these it could have a good idea what is annoying the user - even if it couldn't from a single response.
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
tmaurerAug 29, 2012 5:15 PM (in response to John Schwiller)
Not mediate, but I'd you can give users that expectation, it works!
-
Re: Deliver us from email questions!
tmaurerAug 29, 2012 5:22 PM (in response to tmaurer)
Not immediate, meaning although it isn't fixed right away. Sorry. Fat thumbs on an iPhone doesnt work well.
-
-
-