19 Replies Latest reply: Sep 27, 2011 7:58 AM by Ryan Rutan RSS

    Anyone upgraded to 5.0... or planning to do so?

    Marine Poncet

      Weez, our internal instance, is just one year old, and we are already planning to upgrade from 4.5 to 5.0 in November... are we being brave??

      We are about to set up a testing environment to secure the technical upgrade part. We wish to involve key users in this testing environment to anticipate reactions and training needs and use lessons learnt to shape our change management program.

      Who has taken the plunge and could give us some feedback? Or who is planning to do so and how are they getting prepared? 

        • Re: Anyone upgraded to 5.0... or planning to do so?
          JohnSchwiller

          Internally we've got both a 4.5.6 and 5.0 instance, with some experienced users working on both instances. I think that some of them didn't find the new UI as intuitive as one might have hoped.

           

          Our customers are all on 4.5.x and in some cases considering upgrade to 5.0.x. For new customers we will be starting them on 5.0.x rather than 'risk' adoption on 4.5.x  and later migration.

           

          There's quite a bit of comment on Jive Community (JC) by Community Managers who are thinking through how they might handle training, and how much would be needed.

           

          I think your use of the word 'plunge' is well chosen    We know that there's a 5.0.1 upgrade coming 'soon' which should address some of the issues found on JC (as you would always expect with such a major revamp). I think whilst proceeding with your planning, I'd reserve a final go / no-go decision until we see 5.0.1

           

          No doubt others will have their views, particularly where they have large deployments of well experienced users. But I think how much user support you can provide during the critical two weeks will be important as some users may feel a bit 'lost'. 

          • Re: Anyone upgraded to 5.0... or planning to do so?
            JohnSchwiller

            BTW in your video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyu4gxoLr0o   how have you got your tablets working with Jive in the London tube system?? 

              • Re: Anyone upgraded to 5.0... or planning to do so?
                Marine Poncet

                Thanks for your reply: waiting for 5.0.1 is certainly part of the plan. Still we are concerned about the ability of our users to transpose their brand "new way of working" into a significantly different interface.

                About the video : we are visionaries!

                  • Re: Anyone upgraded to 5.0... or planning to do so?
                    Gia Lyons

                    Ryan Rutan just successfully upgraded National Instruments' internal employee community to Jive 5

                      • Re: Anyone upgraded to 5.0... or planning to do so?
                        Ryan Rutan

                        That's correct.   We had a lot of platform enhancements including hardware switches that were hinging on it.  Given our testing, we felt it was compelling for us to go ahead and get our infrastructure switched out and upgraded to 5.0.0.1 at this time.  We have plans to uptake the 5.0.1 patch set once it is made available; however, per our testing ... we didn't see anything major that convinced us we needed to block all our efforts until 5.0.1.  Tomorrow is our first day back in the office ... so expecting some general chatter/support ... however, will try to relay the post-upgrade experience as much as possible.  We upgraded from 4.5.5.0.

                         

                        Overall, the Jive5 software upgrade portion of this effort was by far the easiest, with the only catch being the excessive time to re-create the Search Index (approximately 60 hours to complete).  During that time, the app is very usable minus Searching for content/places and @mentions.  that was the only gotcha we ran into, but we ran into it on our UAT environment (and Jive did as well in their Jive Community upgrade)...so it didn't catch us too off guard. 

                         

                        Let me know if there are specific aspects you'd like to hear about. =)

                          • Re: Anyone upgraded to 5.0... or planning to do so?
                            Kevin Crossman

                            1) How much advance promotion did you do for this rollout (and how long have your users been using the older Jive version)?  Did you make UAT available for people to explore?

                             

                            2) How exactly did you deal with the Search Index issue? Turn the site off for that 60 hours? Or make Prod available for that time period, with info to users that the search function isn't functional?

                              • Re: Anyone upgraded to 5.0... or planning to do so?
                                Ryan Rutan

                                Kevin Crossman wrote:

                                 

                                1) How much advance promotion did you do for this rollout (and how long have your users been using the older Jive version)?  Did you make UAT available for people to explore?

                                We had UAT available approximately 1 month ahead of our roll-out with active promotion and sponsorship, as well as proactive training.  Users have used a combination of 4.0 and 4.5 for since January 2010...so about 1.5 years...probably drop that to 1 year average.

                                 

                                2) How exactly did you deal with the Search Index issue? Turn the site off for that 60 hours? Or make Prod available for that time period, with info to users that the search function isn't functional?

                                The latter.  In Jive's documentation, (which we were not aware of at the time), they have instructions on how to do the rebuild in a clustered environment. Originally, we thought we had a window large enough to where we wouldn't need to do all the manual steps...but long story short....100% doesn't mean 100%...apparently 121% = 100% in the Search Index first time re-build for us.   That being said, once we implemented the clustered rebuild steps...users were able to use the system ... browse and be relatively efficient ... however searching, @mentions to places/content (people is a separate index), and some various other small features were not available.

                                 

                                I would strongly recommend that if you can allocate more resources (CPU) to the processing node, it will help alot because one of the reasons the process takes so long is because the CPUs are throttled at 100% for quite a while.  To Jive's credit though, they engineered the solution that allowed the system to be usable (given some work) during this window.  Not a final solution by far, but an option at least.

                                 

                                In general, because I can sound all too optimistic sometimes, this had a major impact to our release.  In fact it was the only snag we have encountered thus far.  All things being equal, if this was just a normal Jive SBS upgrade...we would NOT have pulled the trigger until this window could be reduced.  But given the other infrastructure and processes changes that were in queue waiting for this release, we were compelled to move forward.

                              • Re: Anyone upgraded to 5.0... or planning to do so?
                                Brice Jewell

                                How is a 60-hour index rebuild acceptable for an app that provides critical business functions?

                                  • Re: Anyone upgraded to 5.0... or planning to do so?
                                    Tracy Maurer

                                    Yes, this is really making me anxious. We've got divisions that rely on material stored in our Jive instance for their day job. They need search to work to find the documents they need for those functions. And we all saw how slow the JC was during the search index rebuild. For critical business, how do we manage both slow site and no search during business hours?

                                  • Re: Anyone upgraded to 5.0... or planning to do so?
                                    Ted Hopton

                                    Jive, we need you to comment in this thread -- is Ryan's experience what we should expect for our hosted sites? How should we estimate the length of time needed for our own search index re-builds (when we have, of course, different size databases than Ryan's)?

                                     

                                    cc: Gia Lyons Deirdre Walsh 

                                    • Re: Anyone upgraded to 5.0... or planning to do so?
                                      Marine Poncet

                                      Hi Ryan,

                                      Thank you for the feedback. Prior to launch, did you give access to UAT to all of your users? 2 weeks after full launch, how are they reacting?

                                      We are just getting our own UAT ready... Still interested in any input on the subject of users adoption

                                        • Re: Anyone upgraded to 5.0... or planning to do so?
                                          Ryan Rutan

                                          Sorry for the delayed response. Yes, we provided access to our UAT environment about 1.5 months ahead of our release. This is where we did most of our training and video shoots.  As for feedback,  the two camps in our company (as with most companies) are the pro-NI Talkers and the anti-NI Talkers. We did a poll the first week....and ran it for 2 weeks....to gauge feedback.  We were ironing out a few bugs, some bigger than others.  So the feedback was 20% positive, 40% negative, and 40% undecided.  We re-ran the same poll (started this week...3 weeks in) ... and the poll is looking much more positive.  People have accepted the change and are see their involvement increase.  Anti-camp is not AS vocal...but still out there. Hoping the trend continues...at this point in time...we are sitting at 50% positive, 20% negative, and 30% undecided...but the sample size is very small.

                                           

                                          Note: If you are using Oracle as your DB, you may want to talk to Support to make sure that the known issues have been rectified in your instance if you are going live with the 5.0.0.1.

                                • Re: Anyone upgraded to 5.0... or planning to do so?
                                  mdcrocker

                                  Hi,

                                  We plan to go live with 5 at the end of Oct for the internal and external communities.  We have a demo site set up where people can check it out and try out any HTML with customized code.  We will open the UAT to the current community owners for a few weeks prior to the go live.  We also have a large amount of help and awareness material (thanks Jive) created.  We will run banners on the intranet linking to these areas during Oct to get more awareness.  We also plan on dropping a reference sheet on all the desk globally.  We will also have tent cards in all the break rooms that highlight a new capability and have a vanity link to the V5 help area.

                                   

                                  We have been up and running since Sept 2008, so we see the big reshuffle and label changes in the UI, along with some confusion (ie tracking, notification, follow) as big hurdles for the folks that have been using it for years.

                                   

                                  Mike

                                    • Re: Anyone upgraded to 5.0... or planning to do so?
                                      Ryan Rutan

                                      Do not underestimate the Search Index rebuild.  The % percentage counts are an estimation....and is taking longer than we anticipated.  This is the only big issue that we've run into thus far.  But thought I'd share.  Highly recommend working with your Jive support team to get process on how to mitigate UI performance during this time.

                                        • Re: Anyone upgraded to 5.0... or planning to do so?
                                          Jeremy Von Deylen

                                          Is the 60 Search Index rebuild a one time conversion, or an ongoing tax every time the index is completely refreshed? Today we use Coveo which takes 8 hours for a full rebuild and we also do live indexing. I am very interesting in understanding this as a one time event vs an ongoing process.

                                           

                                          I really appreciate the sharing of Know How around 5.0 and look forward to further dialog as we pursue our 5.01 upgrade over the next 2 months.

                                            • Re: Anyone upgraded to 5.0... or planning to do so?
                                              Ryan Rutan

                                              This massive rebuild can be foreseeable anytime you need to do a full rebuild of the search index.  It is required in the upgrade because Jive has enhanced its search foundation from Lucene to Solr ... (this is in part why the % is wrong).  In the 3 years I have been running Jive this is the first time I've had rebuild this index.  Most of the time I'll Update/Optimize the index...and even that...that is very infrequent. Hope that helps put it into perspective.  But yes, 60 hours and growing for all communities that are ever increasing content until their Jive 5 upgrade.

                                                • Re: Anyone upgraded to 5.0... or planning to do so?
                                                  Debbie Sacks

                                                  We are planning to launch our internal community on Jive 5.0. We actually have been in development mode for many months due to some security issues on our side.

                                                   

                                                  We started our champions / community managers / early adopters on Jive 4.5 and since it has taken so long to resolve these tech issues, we have made the decision to now launch on v5.0. Launching with the latest version of Jive versus migrating to it at a later date will avoid significant disruption to the workforce as only our early adopters will be affected (approximately 50 employees).

                                                   

                                                  We did hold a Jive-hosted webinar  a few months ago to show our early adopters the new UI, advanced communication features and apps market. Most seemed interested and are engaged and are now playing around, testing stuff, and asking questions in the development environment, which is great. We're due to launch our production environment to this early group very soon (hopefully within a few weeks) so I will keep you all posted on how it goes, as well how we're integrating promotion and training into our launch. 

                                                   

                                                  Debbie