19 Replies Latest reply on Sep 7, 2011 1:41 PM by John Schwiller

    Does Jive really practice what they preach?

    Line6Miller

      I've been using your software since Integrated and since then, our company has purchased upgrades to SBS as well as JSME. Lately I feel that a lot of what Jive preaches (engage, collaborate, etc) sounds really great on paper, but the software has become so packed with useless features and tools that it's almost impossible to find your way around let alone develop a usefull engaging community. Sometimes I think that you guys are so enthralled with what you can load into SBS that you never really stop to think about whether or not you SHOULD. Feature creep at its finest.

       

      Your support process has so many steps and rules that a lot of times I'd just assume call you first rather than post a case. Who is Jive to suggest what they consider a critical support case? Shouldn't I as the customer determine that?

       

      Also, Jive's whole philosophy on engagement is great but I've found that overall, Jive themselves needs to heed their own words. I've had questions go unanswered in your community here (not out private support group) for months. I've also noticed the lack of JSME discussions going on here. There are currently 3 discussions in the JSME space right now. They are all mine. Really? How many people are actually using this?

       

      I think you guys are so caught up in finding investors and expanding (no doubt to eventually sell or go public) at such a rapid pace, that you're forgetting your whole core philosophy in the wake.

       

      Thanks for listening. I hope you please take this criticism the right way and use it to improve your software.

        • Re: Does Jive really practice what they preach?

          Hi Richard,

           

          Thanks for your observations. There are sections of the Jive Community that are quite active (e.g., this Business area,Internal Community Managers, External Community Managers, Product Innovation and Feedback), and sections that are not. The JSME and Support discussion areas are two that we'd love to see more interaction in, so I'll take your observations back to our Marketing organization. Often, it just needs someone tasked on Jive's side with the care and feeding of a particular part of the Jive Community to get things going. We have those folks for all of the areas I mentioned above, for example.

          • Re: Does Jive really practice what they preach?

            With your permission, I'd like to move all your posts in the JSME area to the External Community Managers area. That's where folks like you hang out these days. Many of them use JSME, but note that some do not.

              • Re: Does Jive really practice what they preach?
                Line6Miller

                Gia Lyons wrote:

                 

                With your permission, I'd like to move all your posts in the JSME area to the External Community Managers area. That's where folks like you hang out these days. Many of them use JSME, but note that some do not.

                That's fine Gia. Thanks. You just made proved my point. So many places and spaces to choose from it's almost impossible to know which one to post on and I am no newb when it comes to Jive. Think about using SBS as a support community for your customers. You know how frustrating it can be for a customer that just wants to be able to post a question or find an answer to have to navigate through countless spaces, tabs, bread crumbs, etc?

              • Re: Does Jive really practice what they preach?
                bmcginness

                I have also noticed that there is a real lack of feedback and response in many communities. From my own practice I know if you do not engage and respond users will not come back. I have been very disappointed in the lack of response to posts and questions I see throughout the forum.

                 

                Does jive intend to put more resources on ensuring spaces are monitored and questions responded to? Shouldn't the goal be to at least respond withing 24 hrs to every question?

                  • Re: Does Jive really practice what they preach?

                    bmcginness, thanks for your valuable feedback. Can you tell me which areas of the community you are experiencing a lack of engagement? There are areas of the community that do have resources officially assigned to facilitate them (like this one), and then there are areas that don't. The more detailed information we can gather about the latter, the better we'll be able to assign official resources.

                  • Re: Does Jive really practice what they preach?

                    I think Line6Miller's comments are valid.  I was a software product manager in a former job many moons ago and we had a customer user group who voted on release features.  We didn't always do exactly what the customers asked for, but we did take it as valid input to helping build the product roadmap.  Maybe Jive would value by using the Jive Champion group more and have them vote on feature builds, including community design.  And I must agree the service issues he brings up have been experienced by our company too.  And when they get raised to me the CMO it is serious.  Jive, take this feedback as intended, to help you make a great product even better.  Lastly, in looking at the hord of Jive posts that hit my email this morning announcing Jive 5, I noticed a bit of in-athuentisity and too much marketing speak - happy talk that was a bit over the top in the emails.  Come on Jive, speak real.  Including being willing to have a public discorse with unhappy customers.  I didn't notice any comments back from Jive regarding Line6Miller's saying, "I am sorry you are dissapointed in the customer service.  Would you share more?"  Maybe Line6Miller has some valuable feedback that can help Jive really rock.  Instead the answer is "We moved your comment to another area of the community."  Somehow I don't see that as Answering his question.

                    • Re: Does Jive really practice what they preach?

                      Your support process has so many steps and rules that a lot of times I'd just assume call you first rather than post a case.

                      Sorry that you feel this way. The support process has been honed over the years with eye toward balancing the customer usability of the Supportal with the key backend functionality that validates your license, routes your case to the proper geographical team, records essential data that helps us provide higher quality support, and manages the queue of hundreds of cases that are filed each week. We have tried to make it as easy as possible to file a case but we do require that you provide us with the key information needed to effectively handle your case. And of course, you are always welcome to call us about your issue, we just ask that the case is filed first so we have an issue to track.

                       

                      Is there something in particular you wish you could change about the process for filing a case?

                       

                      Who is Jive to suggest what they consider a critical support case? Shouldn't I as the customer determine that?

                      Here is the language we use to describe the conditions appropriate for a Severity 1 case:

                      A Critical Severity issue has significant to critical business impact on a production system, resulting in Licensees production system being either down, or functioning at a significantly reduced capacity.

                      In order to ensure that we meet our contractual requirements for site uptime and maintain high standards for responsiveness to critical situations, it is very important that we categorize this class of issues in a systematic way.

                       

                      Having said that, our team is trained to take your business context into consideration when handling your support tickets. Therefore if you file a case and explain why it is critical to you to have this issue taken care of, we should be prioritizing that based both on the severity of the technical problem encountered and the criticality of the issue to your business's use case. If you feel like this is not the case, this is an appropriate time to escalate the case to your account manager.

                       

                      If you have specific incidents where you feel like Jive Support has not responded appropriately to the criticality of your issue, please Share the cases with me and I would be happy to look into them on our end to see if any process improvements may be possible.

                       

                      Thanks for the feedback!

                        • Re: Does Jive really practice what they preach?
                          Line6Miller

                          Karl Cyr wrote:

                           

                          Who is Jive to suggest what they consider a critical support case? Shouldn't I as the customer determine that?

                          Here is the language we use to describe the conditions appropriate for a Severity 1 case:

                          A Critical Severity issue has significant to critical business impact on a production system, resulting in Licensees production system being either down, or functioning at a significantly reduced capacity.

                          In order to ensure that we meet our contractual requirements for site uptime and maintain high standards for responsiveness to critical situations, it is very important that we categorize this class of issues in a systematic way.

                           

                           

                          Karl, you're a good guy and I appreciate your response but I just don't agree with this. I know there have to be some rules in place to prioritize cases. I get that. I ran our support forums for 5 years at Line 6 and developed ways to escalate support issues etc. Know what I discovered from those 5 years? That people don't want you to tell them how important (or not) YOU think their support issues are. Period.

                           

                          So you're saying that you guys reserve critical cases for system wide crashes or issues resulting in "functioning at a significantly reduced capacity". Please elaborate on that.

                           

                          You want an example? Line 6 purchased JSME last year from you guys. It was $20,000. Maybe small change for some of your clients like Nike, Cisco, or whoever but for us, that's a significant chunk of our ANNUAL marketing budget. Shortly after purchasing JSME it became quite clear to us that we were among the first to actually use the software. We assumed this due to the countless number of bugs we found (and are still finding). One bug in particular was an issue we had regarding Real Time Alerts on our monitors. For whatever reason only one of us at a time could receive real time alerts on the same monitor. Understand, that receiving these Real Time Alerts was CRITICAL to our day to day activities. You know why? So we can ENGAGE (sound familiar? It should. It's your companies' philosophical platform.) our customers as quickly as possible. Well, we couldn't. And this case went on for MONTHS! After tons of canned answers and half assed one line responses from Jive support I emailed our account manager (I even emailed Ariel Cohen thinking maybe I'd get a response...nope). In all fairness, our account manager was very responsive and the support I got from that point on for the most part was acceptable. Shout out to Tyler who was able to get this resolved in 3 days after others couldn't resolve this in 2 months. That tells me that it wasn't very important to begin with...at least not until I called Jive support extremely angry one day.

                           

                          Here's the link to the thread if you want to see it: https://community.jivesoftware.com/thread/111353

                           

                          I made the case public so others can view it as well. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here. I'm sure this case is legendary now at Jive as a made a huge stink about it. Sorry, I felt I had to. Bottom line was I felt this was critical to the case and I think it's fairly arrogant for Jive to assume which cases get which priority. My God, if you're going to do that at least don't tell us!

                           

                          JSME needs help and I hope you guys are working on it. The bugs in the software are ridiculous. I feel like Jive does 85% of things the right way but the 15% of things that are done the wrong way are just stupid and always seem to effect my work day to day the most. It's funny, all of the cool features that sold us on JSME for the most part have problems. The Calendar dates are a day off when scheduling activities, when you do a search in a monitor and you get no hits you can't just refresh the page you actually have to close out of JSME and relaunch! I mean really?! Filtering by category within markets is broken (this cripples me). Oh, here's a good one; if I want to respond to our Facebook business page directly from JSME it tells me I have to LIKE my own page haha! Really?! That's just funny to me.

                           

                          I really truly want to like the software (and some features I love) but it's getting harder and harder. And now with some major competitors out there, Jive isn't the only game in town. Radian 6 is out there (now teaming up with Salesforce) and look out for Vocus who are on the up and up. And by the way, Vocus support is top notch. Their phone doesn't ring twice before I get a real person. They have instant chat and a great, easily navigable knowledge base.

                           

                          One last thing I have to say to you Karl (and please don't take this personally) is that your response to me was just waaaaaaaay too technical. You guys are engaging with REAL people who aren't always tech savy developers. These are END users and more importantly your customers. I understand the lingo that you support guys throw around but I'm willing to bet a huge chunk of your customers have no idea what you guys are talking about when you respond to them half the time. Cut the technical jargon and just talk to us like people and not numbers.

                           

                          I've spent the last 45 minutes typing this up so I'm going to stop now but  hopefully you can see how passionate I am about this. Believe me, I want to LOVE JSME and SBS. Thanks for your time.

                           

                           

                          Rick

                            • Re: Does Jive really practice what they preach?

                              Hi Rick,

                               

                              Thanks for the passionate response! I am truly very sorry that you had a poor experience with our product and the subsequent experience, and all I can offer is the vow of energy from myself and my team to help make things better in the future.

                               

                              I can appreciate that my previous response may be boringly "technical" in nature, but I am reiterating the important responsibility for the Support organization to maintain the integrity of our contractual obligations to our customers. If you are curious, we publish our legal contracts right on our website for our customers' reference.

                               

                              Finally, to address your original question, "Does Jive really practice what they preach?", let me explain what transpired this morning in regards to your post:

                              1. The first thing I did when I arrived at work, before I even poured a cup of coffee, was fire up the Jive Community to see how 5.0 looked.
                              2. "Ooooh, aaah!"
                              3. I friended Gia. Because, you know, she rocks.
                              4. Since I'm following Gia, I found this discussion in the activity stream. The provocative title was irresistible.
                              5. I saw a fellow Red Sox fan with a problem. Tried to pitch in as best I can.
                              6. Went back to our internal instance of Jive, found a discussion from a leader in our Engineering organization referencing this thread.
                              7. Joined the discussion along with leaders and engineers from Engineering, Sales, and Support about how we can better handle situations like these. Agreed that it sucks. Came up with several solid recommendations for improving communication internally between departments and externally to our customers. Continued the chat with Liz and others over coffee.

                               

                              So I'd say the answer is "yes". We don't always hit it out of the park on every swing, but we're here. We're listening. We're discussing. And we're working tirelessly every day to make it better.

                              1 person found this helpful
                                • Re: Does Jive really practice what they preach?
                                  Line6Miller

                                  Hahaha. OK Karl fair enough. I truly do appreciate the enormity of the task at hand when trying to support such a large community as this. I also understand how difficult it can be as a support rep to stave off the temptation to develop the "DMV Syndrome" (canned answers, quick replies, etc). I've been there. I know.

                                   

                                  I'll do my very best to always provide the most accurate and concise information to you guys whenever I encounter an issue and all that I ask in return is that I get the same effort from Jive. I'm sure I speak for all of your customers here.

                                   

                                  Lastly, what kind of beta programs do you run? I'd sincerely, love to be a part of a beta for future updates and I want absolutely nothing in return. Seriously.

                                   

                                  Some honest feedback here: I'm not in love with the new layout yet but I never am the first week or so. Just how it goes with me. The more I use 5.0 I know the more I will understand the powerful features it delivers.

                                   

                                  Believe it or not, I was one of the few forum members on Harmony Central that advocated Jive relentlessly and tried to get others to see the insanely powerful and useful community that just fell into their laps. They really don't know what they're missing out on. It's their loss.

                                   

                                  Rick

                                    • Re: Does Jive really practice what they preach?

                                      This whole situation seems typical for an organisation that has grown its community from tiny to sizeable in a relatively short time. The challenge for Jive will get bigger as they continue to grow, move through the IPO, lose some more of its early executives, and get "professional managers" with less of an emotional involvement in growing a start-up (because Jive ISN'T that now), "process" takes over from "people" … yep, it's going to be tough to keep that same "community spirit" INSIDE Jive. I hope they can, and I know while people like Gia are around the effort will still be there … I wish them all the best, but I think your experience above is a disturbing symptom that needs a deep and lasting response from Jive.

                                      1 person found this helpful