6 Replies Latest reply on Nov 3, 2011 7:39 AM by mdcrocker

    Hosting of Jive and Section 215 of the US Patriot Act

    John Schwiller

      We've just had an issue raised with us by a new, non-US customer about who hosts their new Jive service.

       

      They wish the hosting to be provided in Europe and by an organization that is not subject to Section 215 of the US Patriot Act - such that their content cannot be demanded by US Government.

       

      We are interested in whether any other users have considered this issue and, if so, what the impact on the hosting decision was.

        • Re: Hosting of Jive and Section 215 of the US Patriot Act
          hbakel

          This topic is discussed very much in the Netherlands at the moment. Fueled by a couple of Dutch social software builders mainly about Yammer. And then Microsoft stated that their software hosted in England is still an issue under the PA. I am also curious what a solution is.

          • Re: Hosting of Jive and Section 215 of the US Patriot Act
            John Schwiller

            Brian Gil   can you confirm if 'theoretically' Jive could be asked to record traffic passed through the Mobile Gateway under these regulations. 

            • Re: Hosting of Jive and Section 215 of the US Patriot Act
              Bart.Schutte

              John, it's an interesting question, and one that I don't know the answer to.  I think we need a US expert on legal issues here. 

               

              But there's a lot of FUD around this issue.  There were similar discussions around using BB a few years ago, but I didn't follow them and they have seemed to disappear though nothing changed.  So today, all of our executives' emails pass through the BB servers which could well be accessible by the US gov, and that worries some companies. 

               

              And all of our data centers have been externalised.  We still consider them ours but they're not on our premises, not managed by us.  And our providers manage these centers from low cost countries like india and eastern europe.  If someone wants to get our data, they just need to bribe a low-paid systems operator in one of these centers and they could get a full copy of all of our data. 

               

              It's not a rational discussion, and it plays on fears, and we have, on fact, very little factual information on which to make an informed decision. 

                • Re: Hosting of Jive and Section 215 of the US Patriot Act
                  hbakel

                  Hi Bart,

                   

                  There are two different parts to this discussion. You are right there is fear and you can always bribe someone. That is one part of hosting. If that gives you fear, you should take all software on premises.

                   

                  But the other part, and I think that is a rational discussion, from a non-US standpoint, is that you can get hosting by a non-US provider as a solution. But I can understand that the issue is not big enough at the moment to make that kind of decision. I do want to emphasize however, that the issue is not big at the moment, because most people do not know about it. And as I wrote previous, in the Netherlands, a few Dutch software providers use this knowledge as a sales pitch. That could spread.

                    • Re: Hosting of Jive and Section 215 of the US Patriot Act

                      Hi,

                      With the current pending laws in the US, I think this issue will get even larger.  My understanding is that currently, the US government can walk into your company and demand copies of records without a warrant and without anyone notifying the company or person who’s records are being taken.  Check with Google and you can see that these fishing expeditions are increasing.

                       

                      Mike