47 Replies Latest reply: Feb 11, 2013 9:48 AM by Mariselvamohan Venkatachalam RSS
      • Re: SAP Business Objects is a pain in the neck
        Trisha Liu

        That is exactly what I get too, Donna.

        • Re: SAP Business Objects is a pain in the neck
          Ted Hopton

          No argument here!!! Except I would have chosen a lower-down body part.

          • Re: SAP Business Objects is a pain in the neck
            Nigel Daley

            What browser are you using?  Suspect it's not IE.

            • Re: SAP Business Objects is a pain in the neck
              Ted Hopton

              Sorry, Jive, for the griping pile-on, but you have had this coming for a long time... the tool has so many issues and hasn't gotten significantly better in the years I have been using it (I was your first customer on it). It's not for lack of feedback -- we (I for certain) have been telling you all of the problems with it, but for whatever reason it's not getting better.

               

              CMR is a terrific step in the right direction, but until Jive supplies a viable alternative to the granular, customizable reporting that the SAP module is supposed to be delivering, we're going to remain frustrated. What's the timeline for delivering that?

               

              And, please, nobody suggest that I learn to download a copy of my entire database and build my own reports off that. No way I should have to invest that much learning and labor while every other customer who wants this has to do the same thing themselves -- it's the kind of capability a world-class community software product simply must supply out of the box, so that we can be successful in encouraging engagement and participation.

               

              I know you understand this, Jive. Just impatient to have it delivered. <end of rant>

              • Re: SAP Business Objects is a pain in the neck
                Susan Fariss

                I was told that the CMR data is the same as the SAP data, so I don't trust the reliability in either reporting tool.  We've also had hanging reports like this. I was told to schedule them for an off hour, which frankly isn't convenient either. My main issue is the reliability of the data retrieved by any of the Jive interfaces.

                 

                We use Omniture as well and I trust that much more.  One question, I assume that bot traffic coming to a Jive community would be counted as a No Value Supplied user and would register as activity, hence bump up the active participant numbers.  We've had a Google bot hitting us. I've filtered it out of Omniture but I get the feeling it ain't filtered by Jive.

                • Re: SAP Business Objects is a pain in the neck
                  Del Green

                  We've been fighting the Analytics battle for over 3 years now - and while it’s much better than it was - it is still so far off the mark.

                   

                  We use a mixture of front end numbers, back end numbers, SAP BOID, Google Analytics, Ad hoc requests in the supportal and have also experimented with the CMR.

                  Every single one of these ‘tools’ give us different data when asking the same questions.

                   

                  We've had countless meetings, phone calls, web chats and webenars about analytics - and each time we seem to be making progress, something else will break or throw a spanner in the works.

                   

                  Explanations for the issues we’re all having have ranged from browsers, to hosting configuration, Akamai, data warehouse, data availability right through to data definition.

                   

                  Please don’t get me wrong – there are individuals at Jive that have given a lot of time and effort in trying to sort this issue out – but you can only do your best with the tools you have to work with.

                   

                  I personally,  at this moment in time,  don’t really care about Jive Find or Jive Anywhere or any other super new improvement – just please give us a core product that we can report on - as was sold to us - and help us prove participation and ROI.

                    • Re: SAP Business Objects is a pain in the neck
                      Donna Garber

                      Thank you Del, Ted, Susan, Alex and everyone for your comments on this thread. I think Del gets the "Correct Answer" designation because of his final comment,

                       

                      "I personally,  at this moment in time,  don’t really care about Jive Find or Jive Anywhere or any other super new improvement – just please give us a core product that we can report on - as was sold to us - and help us prove participation and ROI."

                       

                      The reporting feature must get fixed first.

                    • Re: SAP Business Objects is a pain in the neck
                      Karl Rumelhart

                      Just wanted to add a couple remarks to this thread.  First, I want to thank everyone for speaking openly.  The fact that the BOBJ solution is not meeting the need is not lost on folks inside Jive, but it is both appropriate and helpful to get this kind of clear feedback.  Also, please be aware that this thread has gotten noticed and accelerated internal discussions.   We will have a more complete response within a few weeks.

                        • Re: SAP Business Objects is a pain in the neck
                          jmaaks

                          Hi Karl,

                           

                          I just wanted to check in to see if the "more complete response" was posted and I missed it?  We just installed CMR and frankly are underwhelmed by it.  I'm now starting to dig deeper into alternative reporting solutions, but would love to see something better available that integrated with, and is aware of, the Jive environment.

                           

                          Thanks...

                          • Re: SAP Business Objects is a pain in the neck
                            Del Green

                            Hello Karl.

                             

                            We will have a more complete response within a few weeks.

                             

                            Is there an update you can share yet?

                             

                            Rgds

                              • Re: SAP Business Objects is a pain in the neck
                                Karl Rumelhart

                                Thanks for the ping on this.   Apologies for not posting back.  I am traveling right now but will do so Friday or Monday.

                                Cheers.

                                  • Re: SAP Business Objects is a pain in the neck
                                    Karl Rumelhart

                                    Sorry, again, for my slow response here.  Thanks to everyone for being open about your frustrations.  We certainly appreciate that the BOBJ solution is not always meeting your expectations.  And we absolutely agree that reporting is a critical part of what you need to make Jive successful.  There is no one single step to get everything into the right place.  I do want to share a few of the things that we are prioritizing to help move the ball forward. 

                                     

                                    • Improve the robustness of the Analytics infrastructure and the BOBJ solution.   No magic bullet here but we are working through issues that impact the availability of the data and the system and specifically working with SAP to improve our ability to proactively solve BOBJ data transfer issues before they impact you.
                                    • Make access to the underlying analytics data easier to make it more straightforward to use a variety of tools (e.g. Excel, other reporting or BI tools), particularly from a hosted environment.
                                    • Continue to improve Community Manager Reports.  CMR is off to a good start but still has plenty of growing up to do.  We are, of course, investigating and fixing any issues and discrepancies that you report and also looking to provide lots of new features with our top priorities being
                                      • Richer content reporting, such as a "Content Leaderboard" feature
                                      • A straightforward Daily Activity report — how much of each type of activity took place on each day

                                     

                                    Also, please do understand that we are continuing to work out plans for additional analytics/reporting capabilities that we aren't ready to discuss at this time.  I hope to be able to discuss more about these ideas as well as engage more deeply on reporting in general with you all in person at Jiveworld.  I hope to see you there!

                                     

                                    Cheers,

                                     

                                    -Karl

                                      • Re: SAP Business Objects is a pain in the neck
                                        chl_meg

                                        We haven't had activity data available from our system for ALMOST A MONTH. After being told many times that it had been fixed (and testing ourselves to find it wasn't), we're now told it's been passed to SAP and there's nothing Jive can do (and we get NO status updates unless we explicitly reach out to request them).

                                         

                                        Has anyone else been experiencing this level of performance issue? If weren't also passing certain traffic data into Omniture as well, we would be have been in major hot water with no recourse, it seems.But we're still in the dark for other key metrics without that data.

                                         

                                        Anyone have any tips about how you've gotten these kinds of issues effectively escalated?

                                         

                                        - Meg

                                          • Re: SAP Business Objects is a pain in the neck
                                            Christina Zurcher

                                            It's now 2013, a new year and the Business Objects issues continue. How long has this product been out? I'm wondering if others are still having the high level of issues/downtime and general frustration with BO/Analytics as you were earlier in 2012 (when this thread started) because we are...and if so, what have your organizations considered doing about it? We had open bus objects issues for 124 days last year. The process between Jive and SAP doesn't seem to have gotten any better - if a data package is skipped (due to backlog on SAP's side picking them up from Jive) then the process never goes back to pick it up and that results in missing data. We then have to reset the last run date on our end and resend days worth of data in the ETLs. If/when the ETLs and the data processes actually work to get the data out to SAP, then half the time the reports stall and spin endlessly and we can't get the information that we need. I (and my internal customers) are just about at our wits end with this and are looking for alternatives and/or advice on what others have done.

                                             

                                            Thanks,
                                            Christy - element14

                                              • Re: SAP Business Objects is a pain in the neck
                                                chl_meg

                                                Even with dedicated help from Jive regarding the BO system, we have continued to encounter many of the problems you've noted

                                                 

                                                In parallel, we have worked with an internal team in our company to bring the production and analytics DB dumps into a PostgrSQL server and create our own reports from there. If you have a team or can get a vendor to do that, I highly recommend that. We are almost at a point where we have a system for getting all of our key weekly and monthly reports and the team now knows the database well enough that we're ready to start funneling future report requests from other groups directly over to them.

                                                 

                                                Due to our amount of data, processing these "data dumps" is not insignificant and there is now way to automate those feeds (i.e. someone has to download the files). However, it has allowed us to pretty much run any report we need to run, slicing and dicing the data in ways that meet our needs. Even in there weren't performance problems in SAP, the Analytics DB that feeds that system does not have the full data available from the production database. So, there were reports we could never have gotten from the BO system anyway.

                                                 

                                                If you've got people who write somewhat complex SQL scripts and you have somewhere to store the data, I really think this is a better way to go. My stakeholders can finally get the data they need and trust its reliability.

                                                 

                                                Meg

                                                  • Re: SAP Business Objects is a pain in the neck
                                                    Olu Adesida

                                                    chl_meg wrote:

                                                     

                                                    Even with dedicated help from Jive regarding the BO system, we have continued to encounter many of the problems you've noted

                                                     

                                                    In parallel, we have worked with an internal team in our company to bring the production and analytics DB dumps into a PostgrSQL server and create our own reports from there. If you have a team or can get a vendor to do that, I highly recommend that. We are almost at a point where we have a system for getting all of our key weekly and monthly reports and the team now knows the database well enough that we're ready to start funneling future report requests from other groups directly over to them.

                                                     

                                                    Due to our amount of data, processing these "data dumps" is not insignificant and there is now way to automate those feeds (i.e. someone has to download the files). However, it has allowed us to pretty much run any report we need to run, slicing and dicing the data in ways that meet our needs. Even in there weren't performance problems in SAP, the Analytics DB that feeds that system does not have the full data available from the production database. So, there were reports we could never have gotten from the BO system anyway.

                                                     

                                                    If you've got people who write somewhat complex SQL scripts and you have somewhere to store the data, I really think this is a better way to go. My stakeholders can finally get the data they need and trust its reliability.

                                                     

                                                    Meg

                                                    Hi Meg

                                                     

                                                    That would explain why when we have attempted the replicate the BO reports by manually querying the analytics database, the resulting reports falls a little short of what is expected.

                                                     

                                                    Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you suggesting a data warehouse combining the application and analytics databases?

                                                     

                                                    Thanks,

                                                     

                                                    Olu

                                                      • Re: SAP Business Objects is a pain in the neck
                                                        chl_meg

                                                        Exactly.

                                                         

                                                        We had to create it as a stand-alone system b/c our teams couldn't find an easy way to get the data into our Microsoft SQL systems. However, PostgreSQL is open-source. So, as long as you have the hardware, you can get that and pull in the data dumps (both application and analytics) fairly easily.

                                                          • Re: SAP Business Objects is a pain in the neck
                                                            Olu Adesida

                                                            chl_meg wrote:

                                                             

                                                            Exactly.

                                                             

                                                            We had to create it as a stand-alone system b/c our teams couldn't find an easy way to get the data into our Microsoft SQL systems. However, PostgreSQL is open-source. So, as long as you have the hardware, you can get that and pull in the data dumps (both application and analytics) fairly easily.

                                                            Thanks.

                                                        • Re: SAP Business Objects is a pain in the neck
                                                          Christina Zurcher

                                                          Thanks Meg. We¹ve had dedicated help from Jive support as well. The Jive

                                                          support team does their best but there doesn¹t seem to be either the level

                                                          of support from SAP necessary, or a commitment from SAP to improve their

                                                          systems and processes or something.

                                                           

                                                          Thanks for sharing the information about the dedicated PostgrSQL option. We

                                                          use Omniture as our primary analytics tool for the bulk of our websites

                                                          and even some data on our Community we get from Omniture. I read about a

                                                          feature in Omniture that might allow us to point it at a separate data

                                                          warehouse and use it to pull/run our reports. Has anyone else ever tried

                                                          something like that?

                                                           

                                                          Christy

                                                           

                                                          On 1/11/13 11:47 AM, "chl_meg" <communities-no-reply@jivesoftware.com>

                                                            • Re: SAP Business Objects is a pain in the neck
                                                              Bill Chamberlain

                                                              If you are interested, we have built a custom solution that sits on top of Jive's Analytics database. Similar to what chi_meg describes from their internal team.

                                                               

                                                              One of the compelling features of the framework we built (using QlikView's tool) is its speed and ease of use. Within seconds (literally) you can change the data visuals you are looking at from "all data" down to a particular user, document, and day. We can configure it to run stand alone or in a server environment where your community managers can access the data.

                                                               

                                                              The other benefit (which some clients like) is the ability to integrate other data into your Jive data and/or do some data clean up when loading it into our framework. (e.g. Take 6 spellings of NYC and transform them into a single and consistent value)

                                                               

                                                              I am happy to setup a demo or discussion if you want to see this in action.

                                                               

                                                              Bill Chamberlain

                                                                • Re: SAP Business Objects is a pain in the neck
                                                                  Jim Buck

                                                                  Hi Bill –

                                                                   

                                                                  We’ve just recently stood up our instance of Jive and already are seeing many inconsistencies with the data.  Prior to this, I worked at a company where I stood up Jive and we started down the road of a nightly PostgrSQL download because the analytics tool was so poor.

                                                                   

                                                                  One issue we ran into was being able to identify data within the tables themselves.  Jive seemed to have difficulty telling us where certain data lived so that our data warehouse folks could actually write the queries for reporting.  I’m wondering if you have had that issue when using QlikView.  I’d be interested in knowing more about your setup.

                                                            • Re: SAP Business Objects is a pain in the neck
                                                              Elise Hann

                                                              Yes, we are still having considerable issues with Business Objects - things haven't improved for us much (if at all) since last year. It sounds like we are having similar problems to you - regular issues with ETLs and inconsistencies in the data produced.

                                                               

                                                              We're also still having regular issues with the SAP tool itself - reports not running or missing, random error messages, not being able to log in.

                                                               

                                                              Really interesting to read about the custom solutions that are being implemented - we're looking at doing something along these lines as Bobj is not proving worthwhile for us.

                                                          • Re: SAP Business Objects is a pain in the neck
                                                            Jared Smith-Mickelson

                                                            Folks, I wanted to provide an update to what Karl last communicated on this thread.

                                                             

                                                            Improve the robustness of the Analytics infrastructure and the BOBJ solution.   No magic bullet here but we are working through issues that impact the availability of the data and the system and specifically working with SAP to improve our ability to proactively solve BOBJ data transfer issues before they impact you.

                                                            We've made two improvements here.  First, we've put automated monitoring in place to quickly detect delays in data delivery.  Second, we've made changes to the BOBJ universe to reduce report generation times.

                                                             

                                                            In the BIOD architecture, data ingest and report generation contend for memory and compute resources.  As of a couple months ago, the data sets and number of reports had grown to the point where report generation was consuming all CPU time.  SAP even migrated us to dedicated gear in an attempt to address the problem.  Jive, as customer, was consuming 30% of SAP's overall BIOD capacity.  Ingest jobs were blocked, unable to allocate memory in use for processing massive joins required for many reports.  We resorted to killing long-running report generation jobs in order to prioritize data ingest.

                                                             

                                                            We deployed an optimization a couple weeks ago and have further improvements to the BOBJ universe under development.  Over the next month or two, we expect to achieve significantly shorter report generation times and reduce the occurrence of excessively long-running reports that need to be killed.

                                                             

                                                            Make access to the underlying analytics data easier to make it more straightforward to use a variety of tools (e.g. Excel, other reporting or BI tools), particularly from a hosted environment.

                                                            A data export API is part of our 2013 roadmap, though we have yet to communicate exact dates and supported versions.

                                                             

                                                            • Continue to improve Community Manager Reports.  CMR is off to a good start but still has plenty of growing up to do.  We are, of course, investigating and fixing any issues and discrepancies that you report and also looking to provide lots of new features with our top priorities being
                                                              • Richer content reporting, such as a "Content Leaderboard" feature
                                                              • A straightforward Daily Activity report — how much of each type of activity took place on each day

                                                            We released CMR v3 last month.  See Community Manager Reports Plugin for download artifacts and release notes.