14 Replies Latest reply on May 24, 2012 7:24 AM by Ted Hopton

    How do you use a combination of Jive metrics (like CMR) and Web metrics (like Google Analytics or Omniture)?

    karl.rumelhart

      I have heard a number of references  and seen a lot of comments in the Jive Community recently about Google Analytics and Omniture and how community managers find themselves using a combination of the these tools plus Jive tools like Community Manager Reports.   I do not have a lot of experience with the web analytics tools and find myself asking a number of questions:

      • What is the right way to think about which parts of a community manager's needs should be met by the web tools and which parts should be addressed by Jive app-level data?
      • What are some good practices for using these tools in combination?
      • What gaps or problems arise when using, say, Google Analytics and CMR together?

       

      Thoughts?

       

      Thanks!

       

      -Karl

        • Re: How do you use a combination of Jive metrics (like CMR) and Web metrics (like Google Analytics or Omniture)?
          bjewell

          We are on 4.5.6.2, we have our own data warehouse, and I have not seen what's in the Jive Analytics database, so you might have to take this with a grain of salt. To my knowledge, Jive still only tracks views on content types, not pages. We use WebTrends to measure other user behavior factors like bounce rate on our home page and specific space and group homepages, and we also look at click path analysis to determine where our users enter, journey, and exit in order to better design the overall experience. These matter to the overall community manager, not necessarily specific group owners.

          • Re: How do you use a combination of Jive metrics (like CMR) and Web metrics (like Google Analytics or Omniture)?
            Ted Hopton

            Actually, Karl, I just ran across something I first saw months ago and have not had time to follow-up: Tracking Traffic from Jive System-Generated Emails with Google Analytics. A quick excerpt:

             

            • Another thing that web analytics tools can be used for is click tracking. Just like you would tag your links for an inbound email or online ad campaign to your website, you can tag the links from your Jive system-generated emails. Jive sends out emails to registered community members for a variety of reasons, like when they subscribe to email digests or follow updates on a particular piece of content in the community. If you don't tag your inbound links explicitly, the inbound traffic gets lumped under Direct Load, and you won't be able to tell if members are clicking through from emails or not.  You'll see the traffic coming in but not understand the source. That's why we need to set up a GA campaign specifically for the community email tracking.

             

            So, there may be power with Google Analytics/Omniture that I am not tapping, yet could be powerful for CMs in specific groups/teams.

              • Re: How do you use a combination of Jive metrics (like CMR) and Web metrics (like Google Analytics or Omniture)?
                nbussard

                We tried to do tracking of emails in Google Analytics, but were not successful in making it work. It would be very useful to know, however.

                 

                Before we had CMRs, our group owners used Google Analytics quite a bit to assess the amount of traffic to their specific group. It's way faster than waiting on us to try pull something from SAP. Also, you can see a lot more data that is not available in the CMRs or sometimes the data warehouse: where people are coming from, path analysis, amount of time spent on site, mobile visits, mobile device used, as well as visits on a specific page/content item. The real-time analytics in Google is very useful when we run live streams on our communities.

                 

                As for the gaps that remain, I would have to say document downloads remains a huge one for us. We get that request constantly and have no easy way to get answers. There is also a big demand to understand who is accessing which pieces of content.

                 

                Karl Rumelhart, if you're interested, I would be happy to show you the reports that we have in Google Analytics over a screen share so you can get a better idea. I am out this week in a workshop, but will be available the week of the 29th.

                • Re: How do you use a combination of Jive metrics (like CMR) and Web metrics (like Google Analytics or Omniture)?
                  bjewell

                  Speaking of email tracking, we have wanted to measure how much content is created via email replies versus in the Jive UI. While tracking click-throughs from notifications to Jive for viewing is interesting, I care more about content creation.  I can't seem to find the thread now, but there is a flag in Jive that sounds like it would be tracking this, but it is not. Is this addressed in 5.0 and beyond?

                    • Re: How do you use a combination of Jive metrics (like CMR) and Web metrics (like Google Analytics or Omniture)?
                      karl.rumelhart

                      Brice, email tracking has been a persistent request and is on the radar but is not currently easy to do with Jive's analytics tools.  However, for the most part, the urgency I have heard has been about tracking views.  Interesting that you are focused on creation.  That is a slightly different, and I suspect, more tractable, problem.  I will look into it.

                       

                      Nikki: good info.  To make sure I am clear: the items like where people are coming from, path analysis, and so forth are clearly important for you but group owners don't need this, right?  Regarding document reporting, heard and understood.  Certainly, in CMR v2 enhancing content reporting was not a focus and we are more than due to make progress in that area.  Also, thanks for the offer to get a peek.  I will follow up offline.

                  • Re: How do you use a combination of Jive metrics (like CMR) and Web metrics (like Google Analytics or Omniture)?
                    karl.rumelhart

                    Since I have the attention of so many thought leaders let me push further on this topic:  are there any practices folks have developed for joining across the web analytics and jive analytics data?  E.g. has correlating users across the two proved to be difficult/easy/unnecessary?

                    • Re: How do you use a combination of Jive metrics (like CMR) and Web metrics (like Google Analytics or Omniture)?
                      RyanSe

                      Hi Karl,

                       

                      With our communities, we currently use a mixture of SQL queries run against local instances of the production/analytic databases, Google Analytics and Business Objects...in that order. I've yet to use the new CMRs so I cannot comment on their functionality. Here are some notes about our choices:

                       

                      Local copy w/ SQL vs. Business Objects - A lot of folks have touched on their struggles with Business Objects in other discussions so I'll skip adding to the pile. For me, BI really isn't much of an option since a lot of the reporting we provide through the business deals with data that lives in the applications database being combined with data coming from other internal data sources like Active Directory or our system for call center metrics. I also like the flexibility of working directly with database tables to create joins that normally wouldn't exist and looking at individual components that make up some of the overall events (CREATE being a big one). I see BI and CMR to be options to meet that 80% of common use cases. Since we already tackled the basic "vitals" type reporting ages ago, most of our time these days is spent on qualitative analysis which playing hands on with SQL queries is far better.

                       

                      Google Analytics - Like the other folks, we use this for things like tracking navigation paths, where traffic is coming from, etc. We also have several events set up that we track such as how many individuals are hitting the "you don't have the ability to see this" type pages so we can understand if there are potential permission issues. Like Business Objects, it can help with some "quick hit" data. like getting a snapshot of views on a particular day but we don't use it much. We also run Core Metrics on our external community which we use for some additional insights.

                       

                      Now to answer your questions:

                      What is the right way to think about which parts of a community manager's needs should be met by the web tools and which parts should be addressed by Jive app-level data?

                      This will vary I am sure based on business and individual use case. For our use case, from a community manager perspective, we are focused on the vitality of our spaces and groups so we look at things like how many unique users are accessing each month, how much activity is taking place in the space specifically around documents and discussions, are the questions being answered in a timely fashion and a few other areas. That's data that web tools really can't give us very well so we focus on the Jive capabilities. I would absolutely love to see the data from the dashboard I create be surfaced directly within the space using a widget but also via a centralized location. For me, there are very few pieces of data that I cannot get from Jive provided data that I would need. If you're interested I would be glad to share the data format with you.

                       

                      What are some good practices for using these tools in combination?

                      Using my example above about the dashboard, I've used that data in combination with the GA path information to understand reasons why some of the lower activity spaces might not be getting the love they deserve. We have since modified the navigation to the space or consolidated multiple spaces down into a single space to simplify the structure. When it comes to picking data sources, where there is overlap (document/discussion views being two areas) I'll designate a source of record which almost always is the Jive data and then just not use the data from GA or CoreMetrics on the same topic.

                      What gaps or problems arise when using, say, Google Analytics and CMR together?

                      As Brice mentions, we also use the two for different purposes. That said, where I do run in to problems with the web-based solutions is that it isn't always easy to extract the raw data for manipulating or merging with other data sources.

                      1 person found this helpful
                        • Re: How do you use a combination of Jive metrics (like CMR) and Web metrics (like Google Analytics or Omniture)?
                          karl.rumelhart

                          Thank, Ryan.  This is fabulous.  I am beginning to understand that I may be barking up somewhat the wrong tree.  The web tools are clearly important but their purpose is sufficiently specific that there isn't much concern with combining them with Jive data.  But this point is key:

                          a lot of the reporting we provide through the business deals with data that lives in the applications database being combined with data coming from other internal data sources like Active Directory or our system for call center metrics.

                           

                          It seems that what is important is to combine Jive data with other business data.  That is good to hear, actually, since linking to things outside the social platform is one way to approach thinking about the business value it provides.

                           

                          Does anyone else merge Jive data with data from other business systems?  Anybody really want to do it but are not able to for technical or other reasons?

                            • Re: How do you use a combination of Jive metrics (like CMR) and Web metrics (like Google Analytics or Omniture)?
                              Ted Hopton

                              I'd love to be able to merge Jive data with other systems, but we don't have the data heads or tools in place.

                              • Re: How do you use a combination of Jive metrics (like CMR) and Web metrics (like Google Analytics or Omniture)?
                                RyanSe

                                One thing I would add...

                                 

                                As I look around threads recently there have been a lot of discussions where folks want to mirror the CMR reports in BI OD or make changes to the existing variables (for example: someone wanted to change the speed of response from 48 to 24 hours). Here are a few things I think would be really great to do based on what I have observed being discussed and best practices I use on a regular basis to optimize my own workflows to free up my time:

                                 

                                1. Allow variable changes in CMR - Provide some very light editing capabilities (change default date range, allow changing from daily to weekly to monthly granularity, change variables like the one mentioned above). Doing so would allow folks to make some small tweaks to customize the reports to their needs. I would imagine the queries that generate the charts aren't running continuously so allowing for some small changes hopefully wouldn't have huge impacts on the performance.
                                2. Provide instructions for mirroring in BI OD - Build in to the process of creating new CMR reports the expectation to also draft then publish both BI OD and SQL equivalents so we can replicate if so desired. This will allow us to have a self-help resource available and allow your teams to focus on driving changes vs. answering lots of questions about how the reports are generated and how to make changes.
                                3. Continue to foster better collaboration on reporting through discussions and best practice sharing - This post is a good start down that path. I am betting there are a fair number of folks that have solved problems that others are really struggling with but either don't realize it or are afraid to ask. As an example, due to the nature of how we use our Jive communities, I have a big bag of queries and techniques for reporting on staff productivity and space health metrics but not sure if anyone else is looking for the information.