8 Replies Latest reply on Jul 1, 2009 1:28 PM by greg2

    Tags and Tag Groups as filters


      We are excited about the use of tagging with Clearspace. Our users grock their usefullness and aside from a few issues like:


      • how to tag content with 'multi-word' tags and have the tagging be Lucene friendly. For example, if you tag content with the tag 'foo_bar_tag', you have hidden the tag 'bar' from Lucene. In other words if a user types in the keyword 'bar' into the search box, he/she will not be shown the content that was tagged with 'foo_bar_tag'. We have experimented with 'foobartag' and 'foo bar tag' and have come to the conclusion that it is better to enter the tags as separate words and let Lucene's relevance engine handle the rest. The problem, of course, is that the tag cloud then becomes less meaningful. So we are actually considering using 'foo bar tag' and 'foo_bar_tag' in this case. That way the tag cloud will have the multi-word tag strung together and at the same time Lucene will be happy.

      • plural vs. singular words as tags

      • when a user starts to type a tag into the tag entry box to tag some content, if there are no matches in the system, we would like a message in the look-ahead widget to say something like 'no matches'. that way the user is more aware that he/she is about to create a new tag.

      • are tags global? it's interesting how tag sets are per-space at data-capture time, yet when you perform searches based on tags you receive results across spaces.  we're sure this is by-design, but we can't figure out why.:)* perhaps the reason is permission related?



      But our real questions revolve around Tag Groups. Has anyone used them effectively? Again, we can see their usefullness in one area (at data-capture), but their usefullness as a filtering mechanism is something we haven't grasped yet. We also couldn't help but notice that Jive doesn't use Tag Groups here on jivesoftware.com or on JiveSpace. So we're wondering if anyone has had a positive experience with Tag Groups and can shed some light on this interesting if not confusing feature.






        • Re: Tags and Tag Groups as filters

          By the way, it was great seeing everyone at the last User Group meeting. Sorry I had to leave so suddenly. I looked at my watch and it was 8:25 and I was supposed to be somewhere in San Jose at 8:30. Look forward to the next meeting. Thanks, Eric, for MCing and thank you Jive for hosting (even though I had to leave before my fish showed up ... 

          • Re: Tags and Tag Groups as filters

            Hey Thom,


            How is everything? You have effectively stepped right into what is always a heated battle hear amongst the Clearspace team. Tags, tag groups, their effectiveness, and how to improve them for the end user. I can't tell you how many discussions there have been around this top on our internal Clearspace instance. I think you have brought up some great points in regards to tag searches and how the multi-word problem affects that. It maybe a good idea, if we aren't already, to split the underscored tags - essentially ignore the underscores for search purposes.


            As for tag groups it is very much a different story. We had all the best intentions with that feature and, though I can't speak for everyone, I think we feel that it hasn't been as effective as originally intended. I think the intent was to get the feel of a forum, if you had used Jive Forums you would have noticed to different buckets for content category and forum, and we wanted a way to give users a finer grained control over "content buckets". That being said I think they haven't been very effective.


            There are some new things coming this year with Clearspace, check for the beta in a week. That I think will try to help address these issues, if not with tag groups in particular but with the problems we were attempting to solve with them.


            Hope that helps,


              • Re: Tags and Tag Groups as filters

                hi Thom,


                I second everything Alex said.


                One thing that we've really been going around and around on internally is the notion of a multi-word tag and how they can be / should be represented. Your example was 'foo_bar_tag'; do you have any real life examples of multi-word tags that you've run into in your environment? I'm just curious.





                  • Re: Tags and Tag Groups as filters





                    Thanks for your reply. Here are some examples of multi-word tags that, when split, lose some of their effectiveness:


                    • Code Review

                    • Style Guide

                    • UI Prototype

                    • UI Pattern

                    • Performance Test

                    • Test Plan

                    • User Story

                    • Use Case



                      • Re: Tags and Tag Groups as filters

                        hi Thom,


                        So this is just my personal opinion and there is no 'right' way to do things, but personally, if I was writing a document about performance testing, test plans, style guides, code reviews, UI patterns or UI prototypes, etc... I would tag the documents like this:

                        UI prototype prototyping interface design
                        UI patterns pattern interface design
                        performance testing tests throughput scaling

                        etc. etc..

                        Again, that's just me, but I've always seen tags as being like building blocks that you can combine to make bigger things (and maybe that's something I need get over), but if you look at them that way, I think they get more useful and more effective. For instance, let's say that we allowed multiple words in a single tag and you tagged a document with a single tag like this:

                        "performance test"

                        and then I came through the system and wanted to track anything tagged 'performance'. Using the idea of building blocks, there would be a number of documents and blog posts and discussion threads related to 'performance': some related to testing performance (tags = performance + test or testing), some related to making this perform really fast (tags = performance + optimization) or to performance in terms of a database (tags = performance + sql) and we (Jive / Clearspace) could actually someday actually show you all the tags related to 'performance', which I would so love to put in the product (and will soon, it just has to happen). But if you tagged the document using a phrase (tag = "performance test"), the likelihood of there being a tag related to that building block is pretty low, because it's really specific. Does that make sense?


                        Again, that's all my personal opinion, and that's how I personally see tags and how they're useful. Like Alex mentioned, there's been a lot of discussion internally about tags, especially around tags and delimiters and spaces so we're definitely thinking about it.





                    • Re: Tags and Tag Groups as filters


                      Hi Alex!   Things are going great here! We've gone live! We're hard at work on a migration tool that will allows us to migrate all the legacy content. When that is ready, all the projects and traffic will come over to Clearspace. But for now we have a few new projects and our own project running on Clearspace and the feedback has been encouraging.



                      Tag groups has come up again recently. We did some user-feedback sessions recently and basically everyone said "hmm ... tag groups ... that's interesting ... how would we actually use it?" Some of them said they would prefer to just be able to pick and choose individual tags that might be brought to the content views and used as filters.



                      So the beta is out, right? Do we have to sign up or are we automatically in?



                      Hope things are going well for you, Alex. The team says hello!



                    • Re: Tags and Tag Groups as filters

                      I'm using SBS 3.0.1 and am really struggling with TAG Groups. The idea of them is great. We can set them up so that users can pick from a pre-determined list of tags. As certain customers come up with new tags we'll combine them into a meaningful one and add it to the tag group. As the Synonyms capability comes along we can account for mis-spellings.


                      Anyway, I love the Popular Tag (Tag Cloud) Widget as you can filter down into the posts you are looking for by picking from popular Tags. With the Tag Groups however on the All Content, Discussion and Documents tabs within a Space/Sub Community you can only limit by TAG Group.It says Filter by Tag Groups but it doesn't really filter in my eyes.


                      For Instance I have a Service Provider Tag Group with all the service providers. I have another Tag group with all the product models within that community and lastly I have a Experience or Product Issue Tag group so a customer can choose what they need help with.


                      Let's say I have a XBR Modem Community and I go to that Community. I click on the Discussions or All Content Tab and then see my Filter by tag groups.


                      Show All, XBR Models, Service Providers, and Topics/ Issues.


                      What I would like to do is Click XBR Models. A pre determined list of XBR Models would appear and I would choose my XBR2001 model from the list. It would begin to filter the Discussion/Document results. Then I would click on Service Provider and choose ComCom_cable from the List and my results would be filtered again. In the header both XBR2001 and comcom_cable would be listed. Lastly I would click on the Topics/Issues tab and the pre-determined tags would appear. My issue has to do with no_service so I click the link for no_service and my search results are displayed for all posts with those three specific tags.


                      Does anyone else have use for this type of search capability? Otherwise the Filter by Tag Group widget above the search results is a waste of space for me.




                      Related Topic: Potentially confusing aspects of Clearspace

                        • Re: Tags and Tag Groups as filters

                          Hi Mark,


                          Thanks for the feedback on Tag Groups, this is very helpful. Tag Groups as a whole are planned for improvement in the next release, and the way that filtering works is one of the planned changes. After reading over your post I believe the planned changes will address most if not all of your needs.