19 Replies Latest reply on Apr 25, 2017 6:27 AM by mnevill

    Differences between Jive Custom Hosted and Jive Cloud [updated]

    phmatt11

      We're the process of evaluating where to go with Jive and Jivex. I know there is some customization functionality that is missing with Jivex, but I'm having trouble finding any documentation on what is not supported. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

       

      Thanks,

       

      Matt

        • Re: Differences between Jive and Jivex
          Ryan Rutan

          Matt,

          For clarity, Jive and JiveX are product names for Internal Community and External Community offerings (respectively).  You would use Jive for your company social intranet/portal, while you would use JiveX for your company customer/partner community.

           

          It sounds like you might be wondering about the differences between Jive Cloud vs. Jive Custom, which refers to the manner in which Jive is delivered?

           

          I'm assuming you've already seen the product pages for these solutions:

          http://www.jivesoftware.com/social-business-software/enterprise-collaboration-software/ (Jive Custom)

          http://www.jivesoftware.com/social-business-software/collaboration-software/ (Jive Cloud)

           

          Perhaps you could share some of your use-cases/concerns, and we can go from there?

           

          Max Calderon perhaps you can help Matt with his questions?

            • Re: Differences between Jive and Jivex
              phmatt11

              Hey Ryan,

               

              Thanks for the clarification there. I am looking for the differences between Cloud and specifically the Hosted flavor of Custom (even the names are confusing to me).

               

              I'm still new to this, but I've poked around a bit, so I apologize if I'm using the wrong phrases in advance. I'm specifically looking into customizations of the look and feel of the interface. We have a sandbox that we're using for evaluation right now, and I've played around with the "Customize your Site" area where I can select fonts, colors, and change the links and such. I noticed in our sandbox there is an option for Advanced Themeing, but I haven't found much documentation on how that works either. Are there any gotchas there that I need to work about?

               

              Also, I'm interested in creating widgets to display the specific Jive content that I want (for example videos from every subspace of this space), and I wasn't sure if I should built an HTML widget and use the REST API's, or actually try to build an actual widget that I can import into Jive and reuse.

               

              I'm mostly concerned about look and feel, being in complete control of where things are on the screen (for example, how do I move the traditional Jive Nav to the right side instead of the left?).

               

              There's my brain dump. Do any of these things sound difficult or impossible to do in the Cloud version? Are there other things that aren't supported in cloud that I should be worried about?

               

              Thanks again,

               

              Matt

                • Re: Differences between Jive and Jivex

                  In the scheme of the breakdown, sorry for the confusion. Each of the delivery methods breaks down approximately as such:

                   

                  • Cloud - jive maintains the server and all server side concerns. While this limits some heavy customization, it does allow free, automated quarterly updates to the newest version of the software. This is where you will hear version discussions like "8c1 to 8c2" - this would be the Q2 upgrade to the second cloud release. 
                  • Hosted - jive still maintains server side concerns, but allows much more customization of the platform by the customer. There is only one major update per year (with small bug fixes and patches along the way) that is not automated and not free- generally requiring data migration, strategy and technical services. 
                  • On-Premises - the old school way; the customer handles server side concerns and hosts their own data. The most customizability, but on the same yearly upgrade schedule 


                  What I would guide - leaning towards the slightest customizability that you can while still getting the most out of the platform is the best bang for your buck. Over-customizing makes upgrading difficult and can make it extremely costly. While Jive does support previously released versions, they do have an end of life, so customizing too much may cost more in the end. 


                  It sounds like most of your focus is on visual display and theme ("Customize your site"). While the theme tool is fairly robust in cloud, for some of the more complex theme considerations you have, it might be good to talk with a theme expert or strategist to work through what will be the best long lasting solution. 
                    • Re: Differences between Jive Custom Hosted and Jive Cloud [updated]
                      phmatt11

                      Hey Max,

                       

                      Thanks for the reply. Even though I had the names wrong at first, I already understand the general differences between Cloud vs. Hosted. I've chatted with my sales team, they have mentioned the more generic differences and said basically the same thing that Cloud limits customization.

                       

                      What I'm looking for are those specific differences. What are those heavy customizations that are limited in Cloud? Is this type of information anywhere that I can see it and make an informed decision on whether we need Hosted or if we can go Cloud?

                       

                      Any chance you know of any theme experts or strategists that you wouldn't mind adding to this conversation (like Ryan added you)?

                       

                      We're getting there, but I'm still a bit away from what I'm looking for,

                       

                      Matt

                        • Re: Differences between Jive Custom Hosted and Jive Cloud [updated]
                          John Schwiller

                          My 2 cents - the theme changes you are asking for require 'deep' theming in SOY and FTL. See http://community.arm.com which we did last year it has about 4 themes. We moved things around, and hid choices and renamed others from the menus and specific to various places. If you're on cloud you also don't have access to System Properties so you'll have to ask Support to make changes if they can - for example to set defaults for new users like newsletter frequency, guest access, size limits like document comparison etc. You may also want to choose when new versions are taken - you cant do that on cloud - you just get them quarterly. You can't put plugins on cloud (yours or third-party ones) - and it sounds like you really want to do that although there are other ways to achieve similar results.

                           

                          That doesn't mean hosted isn't a good choice for some users - it's just, as Max says, do you want to focus on use cases and what work people do with the site or on making it 'just so'. For example, if you don't get the adoption / engagement you expect are you going to say "we fell down on the Community Management and use cases" or "if we had just moved this button from here to there and changed its color they'd have loved it and logged in every day"?

                           

                          HTH

                          1 person found this helpful
                            • Re: Differences between Jive and Jivex
                              phmatt11

                              Hey John,

                               

                              Thanks for that info. That's definitely helpful. Just to make sure that I understand things correctly, you need plug-ins in order to create your own widgets, right?

                               

                              And just to be specific, the majority of the UI changes that I'm looking into revolve around two situations: making our community as similar to our website as possible and facilitating our use cases. For the first point we've gone back and forth on the decision on whether to make the community sit off on it's own and have a completely different look and feel, and we keep coming back to wanting it to feel integrated with everything else and not on it's own separate from the rest of the website (or with a different secondary nav).

                               

                              We are really thinking of use cases for our customers, and that's why I was mentioning creating widgets. I gave the example above about showing documents from multiple spaces. Another might be changing the data that shows when you put on a widget for showing documents. I know it has an author, but I'd rather see the short description, and have it formatted like <h3>title</h3><p>description></p><h3>title 2</h3><p>... If I were to go with Cloud, would I be able to use an HTML widget calling the REST API for this? What are some of the ways to get similar results in Cloud?

                               

                              I was already leaning towards Hosted because I've heard you have more control, but I'm getting push back from my company to do Cloud for cost reasons. I just want to make sure whatever we choose gets us the experience we want for our users, but also doesn't put as at a disadvantage for the long run.

                                • Re: Differences between Jive and Jivex

                                  Awesome!
                                  Yes, check out the docs around building widgets here, and custom theme here

                                   

                                  I've heard the want to maintain consistency across sites, and definitely understand. I'm no API expert, so I'd ask Ryan Rutan to comment on the extent of the REST API here, but it sounds like Hosted might be a better option for you than Cloud, at this high level at least. For the cost reasons, I'd encourage you to look at cloud and see if you can leverage existing functionality as much as possible - e.g. the doc surfacing from multiple containers you can do with tags, the html formatting you could do at a small scale manually, or might be able to write something in with the API to do so.

                        • Re: Differences between Jive and Jivex
                          Definitely, thanks Ryan!


                          Matt- what functionality from JiveX was missing that you were looking for? As Ryan mentioned, each of these is the breakdown of internal (think company portal, intranet, or collaboration) or external (extranet, partner portal or support or customer community) respectively

                          • Re: Differences between Jive and Jivex
                            tone

                            Hi Ryan and Max Calderon,

                             

                            From my understanding, Jive supports external communities. How is this functionality different from what JiveX offers?

                             

                            Asking that question on a more general level, is JiveX functionality a subset of Jive, or a subset of Jive plus other JiveX-unique features, or other?

                              • Re: Differences between Jive and Jivex
                                tone

                                Got some good info from ted.sfikas:

                                1.  Jive Cloud:  Sometimes people just call this "Jive".  Jive and Jive Cloud are synonymous.  This is a Jive instance delivered via a traditional SaaS model.  Customers use Jive Cloud to act as their Social Intranet, as a Sales Portal, a Marketing portal, for IT Project collaboration, and dozens of other reasons.  The customer cannot customize a Jive Cloud instance because it is SaaS, but Jive offers some very powerful configuration elements that basically make customization needs far less necessary.  In our experience, most customers want this deployment because it's easy to use, updates and patches are automatically installed and validated, there is no maintenance involved, and the solution is of course managed by SLA since it's SaaS.  Jive Cloud is meant for internal audienceswithin the corporation.

                                 

                                2.  Jive Custom:  This is a Jive instance delivered via a private network within Jive's own Data Center.  Customers use Jive Custom for the exact same reasons as they use Jive Cloud:  Social Intranet, Portal, etc.  So why go with a Jive Custom instance?  The idea is that the customer doesn't want Jive in its own corporate network so that they can still take advance of the SLAs in place, but at the same time the customer wants to do some non-standard things with Jive.  It is also the case that Jive Custom is selected because the customer has inflexible data policies/security policies.  We are finding the choice of "Jive Custom" to be less frequent nowadays, since the case for Jive Cloud is getting stronger every day as most customers learn to trust the Cloud more and more.  Customer can indeed customize the Jive Custom deployment, and updates/patches are not automatic - customer will need to coordinate with Jive's support team and potentially a consultant to upgrade.  Jive Custom is meant for internal audiences.

                                 

                                3.  JiveX:  JiveX is the name given to the type of community which is meant for external audiences.  i.e. on the public internet.  The most common reason our customers choose JiveX is to provide their own customers with a "Support" community.  Some popular examples of Jive working as an external entity can be found on T-Mobile's support community (http://support.t-mobile.com/welcome), LuluLemon's idea community (https://www.heylululemon.com/welcome), and many others.  JiveX can be deployed either in the Cloud, or within a private hosted instance similar to the Jive Custom description above.

                                 

                                Now let's get to the confusing part.  From this point forward I think you said it best:  "However, knowing that Jive also supports external communities".  So here's the thing.  YES... Jive Cloud and Jive Custom, although intended for internal audiences only, ALSO support the notion of External Groups that can invite External Users. This is confusing, because it makes people think that there is no difference between Jive Cloud/Custom and JiveX.  Here are the points that demonstrate what the difference is:

                                 

                                     a.  JiveX is meant to be deployed on a network that is exposed to the public internet in an open and sometimes anonymous manner.  For example, on T-mobile's JiveX site, you don't have to "register" or sign in.  You can simply browse the help articles anonymously.  Jive Cloud and Jive Custom are not designed to allow this.  To get into Jive Cloud and Jive Custom, you MUST register and sign in.  This indicates the differences in security between JiveX and Jive Cloud/Custom.

                                 

                                     b.  JiveX users typically do not have the same capabilities as Jive Cloud/Custom users.  For example, most users on the Lulu Lemon site are allowed "view only" privileges and also the ability to create a Discussion or Idea.  Lulu Lemon users can't create Groups or upload videos, etc etc.  In effect, JiveX sites are meant to be very controlled from a usage perspective.  Jive Cloud/Custom, on the other hand, allows users a vast array of capabilities in most cases.  The idea for the Jive Cloud/Custom use case is that we want the users to communicate in a variety of modern ways, and we want them to do it often!

                                 

                                     c.  JiveX users don't need "External Groups" because by definition, every Group or Space in JiveX is in fact externally facing.  But in Jive Cloud/Custom, External Groups have a very distinct rationale to them.  External Groups in a Jive Cloud/Custom deployment says a lot of things.  It says that the owner of the Group has invited a person outside the company to collaborate with the rest of the people in the Group.  That's saying a lot because it is important to remember that outside eyes can now see this one particular Group.  The great thing about an External Group in Jive Cloud/Custom is that the security is built right in.  By virtue of getting invited to an External Group within a Jive Cloud/Custom deployment, the External User can see ONLY the content, people, and directory of that one single group!  This is a big innovation.  It's like providing a "walled garden" to outside users, with the confidence of knowing that the rest of your company's content is safe from outside eyes.

                                3 people found this helpful
                            • Re: Differences between Jive and Jivex
                              jkurutz

                              Why doesn't Jive have this information clearly posted on its own website or in a top-level document in Jive Products? Doesn't it seem weird that it took a discussion in the Jive community to answer the basic question 'What products does Jive offer?"

                              1 person found this helpful
                                • Re: Differences between Jive Custom Hosted and Jive Cloud [updated]

                                  Hey Josh!  I will agree that Jive can do a better job with having elegant product messaging.  It definitely gets confusing since Jive can be both a product and a platform - and this thread is getting further into the weeds with our various deployment models.  It is certainly complex and we are always working to make this information easier to consume.

                                   

                                  I think the general goal is to not start with a product, but rather a solution.  When you look at our products page (Collaboration Products & Solutions | Jive Software) we do highlight each of our independent products and the problems which they can be used to solve.  We have increasing granularity as you click through each.  I believe that if we included feature matrices, that prospects would end up missing the forest for the trees.

                                  1 person found this helpful
                                • Re: Differences between Jive Custom Hosted and Jive Cloud [updated]
                                  sharakarasic

                                  Is there a more updated version of this info?