39 Replies Latest reply on Jul 25, 2014 1:47 PM by tmaurer

    Jive 7- Limit Templates available?  Or not launch Activity Pages immediately?

    lindsay.forcino@ricoh-usa.com

      We are in UAT for our Jive 7 upgrade and getting a little concerned about how confusing Activity Pages/Tiles/Templates are going to be for our users.  Has anyone launched Activity Pages but limited the number of Templates/Tiles available to users?  Or decided to hold off on Activity Pages all together until the dust settles from the upgrade?  Trying to make some decisions before our upgrade is live... any feedback would be great!

        • Re: Jive 7- Limit Templates available?  Or not launch Activity Pages immediately?
          Steven Schmidt

          We just upgraded this week from v5 to v7. We are bringing new features online slowly as we have a chance to learn how to support them. We turned off all the Categories except for General and left only "Team Collaboration" enabled. By default all of the existing Groups used this template so it was an easy choice.

           

          Team Collaboration.png

          • Re: Jive 7- Limit Templates available?  Or not launch Activity Pages immediately?
            marnie

            Hi Lindsay,

             

            As one of the designers on the templates and tiles feature, your question was of particular interest to me.  Can you give me a little bit more information about what's giving you pause about the feature?  Is it the number of categories and templates?  Is it that the categories aren't useful for Ricoh? 

             

            A lot of features have changed from 5 to 7, is this the only one that you're concerned about?  Really, any info you can share would be helpful as we continue to iterate over this feature and make tweaks to it.

             

            Thanks!

              • Re: Jive 7- Limit Templates available?  Or not launch Activity Pages immediately?
                tmaurer

                Hi Marnie,

                 

                Obviously can't speak to what Lindsay is concerned about. What I can say is that it would be helpful if it tied into system properties. For example, on a recent demo I attended, it was pointed out that if you deactivate the External Contributors, the templates/tiles specific to external contributors remain. So as an admin, I have to find those and deactivate them. If there was even a list that helped me identify which ones I might want to remove/hide, that would be a start.

                 

                I suspect (but am not yet sure) that it is the same for templates/tiles that work in conjunction with StreamOnce. If we don't have an active license for that, I wouldn't expect to see any references to it or the functionality associated with it.

                  • Re: Jive 7- Limit Templates available?  Or not launch Activity Pages immediately?
                    marnie

                    Obviously can't speak to what Lindsay is concerned about. What I can say is that it would be helpful if it tied into system properties. For example, on a recent demo I attended, it was pointed out that if you deactivate the External Contributors, the templates/tiles specific to external contributors remain. So as an admin, I have to find those and deactivate them. If there was even a list that helped me identify which ones I might want to remove/hide, that would be a start.

                    This was a miss on our part, and has already been fixed.  Hopefully the StrreamOnce tiles and templates respect that, as well.  Not being a part of that team, I can't answer definitively.

                    • Re: Jive 7- Limit Templates available?  Or not launch Activity Pages immediately?
                      nbussard

                      Tracy Maurer wrote:

                       

                      For example, on a recent demo I attended, it was pointed out that if you deactivate the External Contributors, the templates/tiles specific to external contributors remain. So as an admin, I have to find those and deactivate them.

                      Ditto for any templates with Structured Outcomes in them. The fact that all structured outcomes are controlled by a single property (versus, say, being able to allow only certain people to mark as Official or Outdated, and allowing everyone else to mark all the other outcomes), forces us to turn these off for everyone but a small group of users. However, a number of templates include tiles related Structured Outcomes like Key Decisions. If I'm not mistaken, the templates remain even after disabling the option.

                      If there was even a list that helped me identify which ones I might want to remove/hide, that would be a start.

                      I have this question logged as a case now: What settings are present in place templates? Since there is no way to make that case public, and since I am still waiting on a response, here is the full text in case anyone else is able to weigh in:

                      In the documentation Jive 7.0 Community Admin Documentation there is a Place Template Reference that lists the name, tiles, and features (content types) available in each template. However, it is missing the settings for Group Type (Open, Secret, External, etc.), Activity and Overview page (whether both are enabled and which is the landing page), and tags. A few questions about this (which should be covered in the documentation, by the way):

                       

                      1. Am I correct that these additional settings are present in some of the templates? If so, where does one see what these settings are? I am looking both for a reference for all templates for administrative/documentation purposes as well as some kind of indicator in the interface itself so that end users understand what the setting are when they create the group.
                      2. Also if this is correct, what happens if you create a group and set the type to Secret, but then apply a template that is configured to be Open?
                      3. If I want to create my own community templates, will the settings I choose for these three items be saved when I create the template?
                      4. Can I edit a template I create? It appears the answer is no--if there is a typo in the description, for example, the only way to correct it seems to be to create a new template, correct the typo, then delete the old one. Is that right?
                        • Re: Jive 7- Limit Templates available?  Or not launch Activity Pages immediately?
                          clairetaz

                          Nikki, this is what I discovered while testing before deploying Jive 7

                           

                          1. I think the 'out-of-the-box' templates are all 'Open' by default.
                          2. If you create a secret group and then apply an Open template, it will come up with this message but will still create it 'secret'.
                            group.PNG
                          3. Yes the settings will be saved (open, secret etc) when you create a template, and the user can still apply different settings if they want to when creating the group.
                          4. No there is no edit when creating your own template and I also found this to be a pain.
                          • Re: Jive 7- Limit Templates available?  Or not launch Activity Pages immediately?
                            marnie

                            To close the loop on Nikki's case from the above link, here are some of the answers I provided:

                            Here's a list of the current templates and their group type settings: Jive 7 purposeful places : is group type impacted in templates?

                             

                            Settings for Activity and Overview don't get saved with the template.

                             

                            Tags do get saved with the template.

                             

                            Templates have an initial social group type assigned to them.  If you create a group that's Secret, and then apply a template that's Open, we respect and retain the original, more restrictive setting.  Our goal is to not do anything destructive and expose potentially sensitive information.  If you make this change, you'll see the warning bar at the bottom of the page that says:

                            Screen Shot 2014-04-21 at 9.47.28 AM.png

                             

                            For an group that was Open then changed to Externally Accessible group, we do make that change:

                            Screen Shot 2014-04-21 at 9.41.21 AM.png

                             

                            Also, one more clarification: all templates have only the Activity page enabled, correct?

                            Yes.  Our goal is to start encouraging people to use Activity pages exclusively and relying on tiles instead of widgets.  However, as we don't have parity between widgets and tile, we couldn't turn off Overview pages, hence having both of them applied.  In our current dev cycle that starts tomorrow, we'll actually be building a large number of new tiles to replace more of the widgets. 

                        • Re: Jive 7- Limit Templates available?  Or not launch Activity Pages immediately?
                          lindsay.forcino@ricoh-usa.com

                          Hi Marnie Pasciuto-Wood,

                          Our thoughts were in line with Steven Schmidt too many options all at once.  Without a better understanding on our part how our funtional departments could benefit from each particular template (which in time we will understand), it seems that is might be best to allow our users to pick and chose tiles, as they would with widgets today.  I am having a little trouble with how to "sell" activity pages to our users (and with activity pages, I would include tiles and templates in that), other than pulling in a Chatter stream for our sales reps.  I can give them reasons as to how structured outcomes, impact metrics and the new profiles will help them in business (and with the success of the platform), but it is the activity pages that I am struggling with.  And we just started UAT, so there could be something I am missing. But with a company of over 25,000 people (and I concentrate on the training of the platform), we have to be very careful about overwhelming our users with new features and functionalities.  Any help you could provide would be great.  Thank you!

                          cc: Courtney Zentz Jason Clemens Chris Cucci

                            • Re: Jive 7- Limit Templates available?  Or not launch Activity Pages immediately?
                              marnie

                              Hi Lindsay (and Steven),

                               

                              And thanks to Claire for your insight on how you're using the templates.

                               

                              This is good feedback, thank you, and it's one of the reasons we added the ability to hide (or change) templates categories into the admin console.  As far as being too overwhelmed, we worked with our marketing and product managers to include a set of templates and categories that we thought was broad enough to appeal to a wide variety of customers.  We also tried to select those that are self-explanatory so that they're easy to understand and get going with place creation.

                               

                              Steven is correct that the General Collaboration template is the default OOTB for all new places and should work for the vast majority of use cases.

                               

                              As far as you not understanding how to explain the Activity pages to your users, they're simply a rolling stream of everything that's happening in the group.  The most acted upon content bubbles up to the top so everyone sees the most important information.  That said, tiles are a critical piece of the Activity page; they're important for curating information.  As a group owner, you can select from three different Structured Outcomes tiles, or you can choose to feature content in a tile.  By curating certain information on the Activity page, the group owner is immediately giving visitors/group members a snapshot of the most important information in that group.  Additionally, group owners can create their own tiles, pointing to whatever (internal or external links) they feel the group needs to know about.

                               

                              Does that help?

                                • Re: Jive 7- Limit Templates available?  Or not launch Activity Pages immediately?
                                  Michelle.Lavoie

                                  one of the reasons we added the ability to hide (or change) templates categories into the admin console.


                                  May I have a reference for that please?

                                  That's something we've been looking for in v7

                                  • Re: Jive 7- Limit Templates available?  Or not launch Activity Pages immediately?
                                    julsee

                                    Hi, Marnie.  Just jumping into this conversation as we are in SIT right now with Jive 7 and our team is also struggling with the sell of the Activity page and the complication of templates and group setup.  I understand what the Activity page is, but for a user base well entrenched in Jive 6 and the use of Overview pages and widgets, it seems like a superfluous additional real estate that would divide the attention when going to a group.  There's also a concern that when Jive talks about a total move towards Activity pages and tiles and away from Overview pages and widgets, that the lack of flexibility in layout will be highly limiting for a population that is used to the ability to customize their overview pages.

                                      • Re: Jive 7- Limit Templates available?  Or not launch Activity Pages immediately?
                                        nbussard

                                        +1 to what Julie said about Activity pages and the complications of setting up groups. Now that I have had time to dig and do a full evaluation on the Place Templates, I have decided to turn all of them off save a custom version of Team Collaboration, as others have talked about. We really have little, if any, need for the Activity page, though that may change down the line when we integrate salesforce. Now I am procrastinating on the daunting task of trying to document for our end users how to create a group, since the options are so varied and hidden under so many different menus. We used to have just a single page on this, and it was very straightforward.

                                         

                                        I do believe Jive is thinking along the right lines in terms of what the future of groups should be, but I don't believe that this stage of the thinking is ready for end-user exposure. Here are some of the positives I see:

                                        1. Templates. Heck, yeah, we want templates. Preferably a few generic ones (4-6) and that is it. They should be different enough that it's easy to tell to determine the trade-offs among each, and all options that are included in that template (tags, privacy setting, etc.) should be extremely obvious to the user when they go to pick one. Bonus points for showing me a preview of what the group will look like when I select a template. And of course, we need templates for overview pages, too.
                                        2. More theming options. This feature is much-requested as there are so many groups that want to trick out their space or show some visually consistency across a set of places. The attempt at providing this is appreciated. Careful consideration needs to be given to things like default background colors (these need to be configurable to match our brand colors; otherwise the result is frightening) and images (no dead fish, please) as well as the number of images (avatar + background image can get ugly quickly) in order to avoid the MySpace effect. (Our brand director almost fell off her chair when she saw how the default options looked in our site, so we had to customize those.) When uploading images for avatars etc, users need guidance in the form of suggested image sizes and they need to be able to preview how their image will look (and preferably crop it to fit). The shadow box around the group image needs to be removed (this is a UX bug in my mind; we had it themed out) and theme options need to be tested with a variety of customer content to ensure they work. I would also like to be able to choose the text color for the group navigation, as well as choose to have no background/banner image and close up that extra white space in the group header.
                                        3. Moving the overview and actions menu off of the main page. Nuff said, this is a good thing.
                                        4. Provide more widget/tile options. I am super excited about the some of the tiles and how easy it is to load content. I really like the places and content tile and the gallery. That said, there are a bunch of tiles that all appear to do nearly the same thing, and, like the templates, the user must add them all and try to configure them in order to figure out the minute differences (e.g., I think there are 3-4 ways to create a list of links in a tile). A little choice feels like freedom, a huge number of choices among very similar things is a burden. If we have to stick with tiles and widgets for a while, it would be great if there were a 1-1 match to lessen the cognitive load.
                                        5. Add stream integrations. This is very exciting for groups to which it applies. Can we please hide it from templates when it doesn't?
                                        6. Simplify the choices that the user has to make regarding group settings. I think this was what was driving some of the changes that were made, such as hiding many options under Advanced settings (this change happened starting with v6) and putting the group Settings under the About menu. Again, good instinct. However, ultimately there is no consistency and many important choices are very hard to find. For example, why are tags hidden under a collapsible menu? I want everyone to tag their groups. Similarly, having to click the gear icon to choose the group features seems gratuitous and eliminates the visual cue we previously had that told us what content types are not currently present in the group. So when I go to add a video to my group and find out that I can't because video is not enabled there, it will take me many many frustrating minutes of menu-opening (and probably a call to the help desk) to figure out why.

                                         

                                        If I had more time, I would have written a shorter post. But I hope this is helpful feedback.

                                         

                                        Cheers,

                                        Nikki

                                      • Re: Jive 7- Limit Templates available?  Or not launch Activity Pages immediately?
                                        JasonB

                                        I found a very good resource Jive published on the differences between the Activity page and Overview page and in what circumstance to use one over the other. If you have not seen it yet:

                                        The specified item was not found.

                                         

                                        This Planning guide Project has some great resources, including DOCs were you can easily copy+paste to convert for your own community: The specified item was not found.

                                        1 person found this helpful
                                  • Re: Jive 7- Limit Templates available?  Or not launch Activity Pages immediately?
                                    clairetaz

                                    Hi Lindsay

                                    When we found out that the place template did not include the overview page as well as the activity page, we went round in circles to make this decision and in the end we opted to deliver 'out of the box' all the templates, as they were. We thought it would trigger some ideas from those who maybe didn't think of using Jive for certain activities. Why not... (the default is always Team Collaboration anyway). We went live a month ago and haven't had any issues reported. Our deployment is still quite small though (5K).

                                     

                                    Here are a couple of things we discovered that may be interesting for you:

                                     

                                    1. We had wanted to create place templates for the entire 'group' purpose (overview with widgets + activity with tiles) but the template only covers the Activity page. This is a bit restrictive but I understand that eventually there will be a move away from 'widgets' more toward the tile-based group with pages in future.
                                    2. The Activity is the default when you create a new group in V7 and by default it comes without overview (the user can opt to add it). This has a positive affect for those people who want a fast collaboration group without having to 'learn' how to play with widgets. It cuts down the need for training as tiles are more intuitive than widgets.
                                    3. The Activity page was not automatically added to existing groups but I blogged and provided tutorials on how to add it, it's purpose etc.
                                    4. Having the separate Activity page for collaboration frees up real estate on the overview page for more 'information cascading'
                                    • Re: Jive 7- Limit Templates available?  Or not launch Activity Pages immediately?
                                      Michelle.Lavoie

                                      We're doing just the opposite.  After 6.5 years, we're launching Jive 7 (we're currently at 4.5.6. I know...Sigh).

                                       

                                      In the past, we 'funneled' all requests for groups and spaces and centrally managed that process. 

                                       

                                      With the upcoming launch of j7, we're changing our strategy to offer employees the ability to create their own groups.  We will continue to monitor space creation, hoping that spaces will evolve to represent our global organizations.

                                       

                                      Will be interesting....not sure how to monitor/manage/connect the owners of similar groups.  But our folks have grown along with the social industry, so will be ready (well, they'll be at first startled but they'll get to ready.  Quickly. )