0 Replies Latest reply on Oct 6, 2015 4:14 PM by felix.rubio

    Has Yammer played out its role?

      Has Yammer played out its role?

      Tags: Yammer, Office 365

      Sunday, October 4, 2015 12:57:00 PM

      And is Yammer dead?

      It is now three and a half years since Microsoft acquired Yammer and I think this is the end of Yammer, as a product/service. Let me explain myself, to avoid the flame war and hate mails that happened when I shared that my thoughts in the  Team Sites are dead post.

      I think Yammer as a brand will stay for a while, it's a strong brand and it's worked into so many PowerPoint decks from Microsoft that it would be hard to wash that away. But as a product or service Yammer is no longer of interest. I claim this due to a number of facts and observations over the last few years. People who follow me on social media cannot have avoided how I've been pretty aggressive in my comments about this product and I'm by no means alone.

      Dead end

      Here are some things that I think points very clear what is happening with Yammer.

      Yammer shut down its UserVoice channel: A couple of days ago Yammer out of the blue took down their UserVoice channel pointing to a custom feedback resource, that you have to register to get in to. This goes in the total opposite direction of what the rest of the Office teams are doing. And this on an area where Yammer actually was successful previously.

      Lack of integration: As I said it has gone three and a half years since Microsoft started working on integrating Yammer with Office 365. And what has happened since then. NOTHING! Nothing at all.  They haven't fixed the identity integration with Office 365. You need to maintain another profile in Yammer - not so much enterprisey.  Sign in is a pain - if you choose ADFS single sign on then you don't have for instance the suite bar - which means that this is really standalone. If you choose O365 sign on then you have a separate password.
      Also just recently the Yammer service moved into the Azure data centers, but still only in North America.
      The list goes on. Microsoft/Yammer has failed miserably on this topic.

      Enterprise Social Networks: Enterprise Social Networks (ESN) is on a decline in my opinion (I don't have any figures to back that with!). And what I mean with that is a standalone ESN is not interesting in the same way as before. There are some up comers, such as Slack, that does some really cool things but I think that audience is more narrow and I doubt Slack would work on some of the organizations that I work with. Generally thinking standalone ESN is a time waster, people and companies want to be efficient, so integration with other products is essential. Let's come back to this. Yammer is as much standalone as it can be, despite the Microsoft marketing stating it's a part of the Office suite.

      All the former Yammer leaders are gone: As far as I know, all the Yammer brains are gone. I remember SharePoint Conference in Las Vegas many years ago where they made a big deal of Adam Pisoni and his team at Yammer. That was the only and last time I saw them….

      Yammer constantly not listening at all, relying just on telemetry: I have had issues with Yammer since day one, issues that are bugs, feedback, not documented changes (dare I mention their APIs!) and I have tried getting in contact with the teams to give my feedback. It's been like talking to a brick wall! Basically any other team at Microsoft I can get in contact with if I need to, ranging from the Office teams, to the Windows teams and even CTOs has been taking my feedback and answering my questions. The only answer is when you have an issue with Yammer or give feedback is that - "we can't see that in out telemetry so then the users are not interested in that". If it's one answer I dislike, then it is that one. It becomes really comical when it comes to the "Mark all as read" function, that I think everyone using Yammer wants. But since that feature does not exist, they can't see it in their telemetry which in the Yammer world means that no one wants it. Duh!

      Lack of innovation: Three and a half years! Can anyone give me any new major feature in Yammer since the acquisition? Well, the Apple Watch App doesn't count. No, there has been no development what so ever on this product, except for some failed A/B testing attempts. Competitors is running in circles around Yammer. Sporadically we see Yammer stuff on the Office Roadmap, but almost always after they are released - just another sign that the Yammer team is not integrated with the Office team or have a different agenda!

      I probably missed a ton of other things, but this should make my point…

      So what is Microsoft doing and what should they be doing?

      Office 365 Groups and the Office 365 core services

      No surprise to those who follow me that Office 365 Groups should be in here. But this is important! I said lack of innovation, lack of integration, ESN is dead etc. with Yammer. All this has happened with Office 365 Groups, where I see a lot of good things grow!.

      First of all Office 365 Groups is integrating with the Office 365 service bringing the major key components together making it easy for users to collaborate, communicate, share and work together. Groups are bringing Exchange, SharePoint, Project and social networking together (could be under a Yammer brand) into one experience. This give Office 365 a unique experience compared to other competitors. With Yammer in the mix, it's a separate service, profile, user experience etc.

      Innovation! The innovation are taking place within the core Office 365 services. Take a look at the new Praise feature (directly stolen from Yammer) that now lives within Office Delve - where it should be. Take a look at the new Like feature that allows you to like e-mail messages - no more +1 e-mail messages. The same goes for the @mentions in the Outlook inbox. The majority of the social collaboration goes on in your inbox, why not let these features live here. I think this is a bold and good move.

      Actually I see the enterprise social pieces of this as an Enterprise Social Fabric that is tightly integrated with all the different core services and apps in Office 365. Not as a standalone service or product! And Yammer is not built for that.

      And for all this good things the Office 365 team also builds API's for use to use, in the new Office 365 Unified API. Something that is documented (another thing Yammer couldn't spell to).

      I'm seeing a really bright feature for Office 365 with Office 365 Groups and at the moment I will have hard to justify starting a Yammer on-boarding project with my customers. That would potentially lead them into a dead end and the off-boarding story of Yammer is most likely worse than the onboarding one. At least I will tell them this story, and they can make up their own minds.

      I would not be surprised that we see a number of Yammer obituaries in the upcoming 6 to 12 months.

      What do you think? Looking forward to an interesting discussion! Is Yammer as a service a dead end? Is the Enterprise Social Network "thing" going away?

      33 Comments

      • John Liu said Reply

        When I first saw the work done to 'integrate' yammer - particularly around SSO, that was the first time I thought Ah, SharePoint isn't the source of truth anymore.

        See, I got used to, for years, that it is the mega back-office-server, SharePoint sucked all information into itself (user profiles, search) and then let you do something with it.

        To get Yammer to integrate, Users has to get out of SharePoint. Azure Active Directory is the right place.

        And as soon as Users gets sync'ed up to the cloud, suddenly we want Groups too - there should be a way to do groups - across products. Again, Azure AD owns the groups. Even adds additional flavours like Dynamic Groups - awesome.

        Search is split out to Delve. Files to OneDrive.

        In the same thought that parts of SharePoint (the mega-service) should now stand alone as cross-product micro-services, I think the same thinking is now hitting Yammer. It can still function as a tool all by itself. But its components are split out to work across services: e.g conversations, next-gen blogs replacing Notes. etc

        So I think Team Office will keep carving out features that were once within siloes and make them cross-product micro-services, and that is where the collaboration would be happening. No more monolithic tool in the future.

        Next one on my watch list - who would own Manage Metadata? "Boards" in Delve? Tags in Yammer? MM in SharePoint? Outlook now has @mentions - why wouldn't they have #tag next? The future is moving fast and is super interesting to watch.

        • Wictor said Reply

          Thanks John for the comments. I agree. And this is what I wrote in December 2013: "[...]SharePoint as a product has played out its role in my opinion" and "SharePoint will be there in the form of building sites and acting like a glue between all the other services".

          Turned out that I was not all wrong with that :-)

      • Marc D Anderson said Reply

        Wictor:

        As usual, I think you're spot on. I'd like to say that I've been questioning Yammer as you do here for quite some time, as have many others.

        To me, the "external groups" idea of Yammer has become the MSDN forums of old. "We have 80000 members!" means there's so much noise and randomness it's impossible to use. And still there is no useful way to search.

        All "social" communities - we used to call them forums or usegroups or listservs - seem to run their course. There's documented research around this (which I don't have at hand), and there are experts like Vanessa DiMauro we can turn to who can tell you exactly what is going to happen. All that without A/B testing. One absolute key tenet is that for social to be *productive* it must be actively moderated.

        Couple all that with the fact that we're in the age of the"shiny penny" syndrome, and Yammer looks like my grandfather's Lincoln Continental at this point. Everyone else want a Tesla.

        A funeral for Yammer at the next Ignite seems like it would be far more appropriate than the Infopath one that happened a few years back. Infopath is still alive and well.

        M.

        • Wictor said Reply

          Thanks Marc. I've seen similar research and also read an article the other week about a company starting 6hr days (instead of 8) with the same productivity. They just made sure to not spend time on social networks during work hours. I think the ESN in its current form is a time waster.

          Yammer as an external forum. I didn't bring that one up, but that must be the worst idea ever. Not even MS believes in it replacing ye olde Technet/MSDN forums - they are pointing people to Stackoverflow (well, except for some peeps in the marketing dept, that are measured on users in Yammer)

          As for a funeral, I'll leave that to the social kiddos, and it will eventually happen...

      • Peter England said Reply

        Hi Wictor. I have to say I was very sceptical about Yammer when our company started looking into ESN and despite the Yammer team seemingly ignoring user feedback and as you say relying of telemetry, our pilot group have found Yammer to be very useful for business generation.

        We are also finding it more efficient than using email.

        Biggest bugbear is their testing process, releasing features to half a tenancy to see if it's working well. Support goes out the window as documentation is out of date for half our users.

        Office Groups really isn't there yet for us. It needs much more innovation before we can enable it. Like the fact users can set up group names with no consistency in naming convention. SharePoint sites are created with no admin access to manage them. No metadata can be forced onto documents etc.

        SharePoint team sites are still very much required for us for the forseable future.

        • Wictor said Reply

          Thanks Peter for your comments. Yammer can be useful yes, but I don't think it has a future. ESN as such are a time waster and doesn't integrate where the core business are. You say you prefer Yammer over Groups and you mention metadata and documents - in Yammer you have NO control over documents, in Groups you have some (with more to come).

          If you are a company starting the journey now - I would strongly recommend them taking a look at Groups.

          I also recommend you to read my series on Groups - using that you can overcome the majority of current issues: http://www.wictorwilen.se/office-365-groups-for-admins

      • Anonymous said Reply

        There are some things that could explain lot of the Yammer stuff happening. One thing is internal politics at MS. My guess is that Exchange team is way more integrated to the other teams at MS than a company that gets acquired. Yammer has been directly challenging the whole concept of email which is a threat to Exchange team (obviously).

        So. Creating a competing solution like O365 Groups with same kind of functionality as Yammer would be an ideal way for a team like Exchange to get rid of the competiton. Their connections to the other teams would be superior compared to Yammer coming from the outside.

        I have no inside information. This is just independent thinking.

        On the other hand, what is Yammer really? It's just a clumsy feed of messages with a like button. You can group the messages but that's it. A student could write similar solution over a weekend. (Not for such a large scale as Yammer is but the basic functionality for reasonable amount of users.)

        The people at Yammer just happened to be succesful in building a brand and story around it. The problem is that Yammer cannot really be developed much without overlapping to Exchange, Onedrive or other products that MS already has. It would have to be assimilated into some other product. Exchange would be the logical one as it's about messaging. Maybe that's why the big boys left the company?

        Personally, I hate Exchange. If not for anything else then for stealing the Office 365 as their own for many years. All of the Office 365 partner materials and MCP exams used to be 90% Exchange. Practically nothing about SharePoint. Those guys don't deserve the mind share that they get. I mean they invented the public folders after all. Shame on them! ;)

      • Bob German said Reply

        @Wictor - I’ve wondered about this for long time now; somebody had to have the nerve to say it out loud! I wondered it when Yammer took off and then fizzled in my company; I wondered it when I failed to see adoption by any of my clients; I wondered it when Microsoft shut off some of its district Yammer networks that weren't getting a lot of use. Then there was the MS Ignite keynote, where they demonstrated O365 groups with not a yammer about Yammer.

        @John Liu - I think you've hit the nail on the head. To provide collaboration services on premises, Microsoft did the right thing by developing Exchange, SharePoint, and Lync ... but in the cloud it should be microservices, not monolithic products. So now we are in the early stages of Microsoft picking the monoliths apart - very carefully so as to not cut off its on-prem business.

        If you split SharePoint or Exchange into microservices, you get a lot of damned useful microservices with very little overlap. If you split Yammer into microservices, you get almost 100% overlap with SharePoint, Exchange, and AzureAD, with the Yammer service not quite as mature as the incumbent.

        Add to that the fact that users are already overwhelmed with information and one more service to check is unwelcome at this point. The logical conclusion is that there should be no overlap: users want one place to check messages, one place to put files, one place to group their colleagues. And I don't think any of those will be Yammer. In the end, perhaps Yammer will just be a mashup view of Office 365 groups.

        @Marc, I was laughing out loud when I read,

        > A funeral for Yammer at the next Ignite seems like it would be far more appropriate than the Infopath one
        > that happened a few years back. Infopath is still alive and well.

        That's because InforPath is useful and Yammer... sorry... :-(

        • Wictor said Reply

          Awesome thoughts Bob, thanks! Microservices is exactly how I see the future of Office 365. I already said that in my prediction blog post two years ago, even though I didn't explicitly said microservices.

      • Mikael Svenson said Reply

        My my my.....what have you done Beelzebub? :) And I have to say I agree.

        In terms of innovation they could have done a lot, but yammer conversations are the same today as they always were. Simple text with no ability to enhance/outline etc.

        The mobile apps are **** and sluggish, with no support for multiple accounts or even display a poll.

        That said, I see yammer working in our 20+ size company, but it's getting near flooding and my ability to keep up.

        At my current customer 15.000+ it also works and have made their merger better. Seems they have many small local groups going. What they discuss, I'm not sure of, but the usage map is impressive in terms of metrics and info.dept says it's working. In the dev team I'm at yammer was working good a year ago, now it's very quiet - as yammer pushers are no longer in the project.

        So....I agree groups can very well be the arena where discussions happen instead of on Yammer, and even the WM app is pretty good. And using Outlook as the main canvas should suit all office workers in the MS space.

        Go groups!

        • Wictor said Reply

          Yes, Yammer do work and make a huge significance in some companies. But do the future see a separate ESN product or do we want it to be integrated into our other collaboration tools?

      • Gustaf Westerlund said Reply

        Very interesting post. I Work with Dyn CRM and it has a built in integration with Yammer, it's own activity feeds, quite recently Office Group integration and the Yammer integration has been decent, at best, being mostly a mash-up integration. I have also been thinking a lot about what Microsoft's strategy in this area is and you're post nailed it, I totally agree, either they don't have the right Resources any more or they have decided that the architecture is not right and O365 is better. I will most certainly change my advice to my Customers/students regarding this based on this post. Thanks a lot.

        • Wictor said Reply

          The important thing is that you have this discussion with the client

      • Darrell Webster said Reply

        I blogged my response, http://webster.net.nz/2015/10/has-yammer-played-out-its-role-my-response/
        But in the spirit of continue the conversation at the source, I am posting it here too.

        I too agree that more needs to change with the core Yammer conversation experience. The Yammer Inbox experience is in need of attention, as you rightly point out Wictor, "Mark all as read" has been one of the most frequent feature requests. So has the "Edit a post" feature. Though let's be honest, can you edit an email once you have sent it? Many of us wish we could.

        External networks...

        One area that Yammer is still strong in is external user participation. It's easy to create an external network, groups in that network and invite people into it. Yammer provides a quick way to provision collaborative tools to external participants, hold conversations share documents, even edit them now using Office Online.
        Groups will need to expand it's external participant mechanism. It's not enough to be part of an externally accessible distribution list otherwise organizations would just stick with that. External participants will want the full experience of collaborating in Groups. SharePoint Online use external user invites, authenticating using either a Microsoft or Office 365 account. It's likely this will be extended to give external users access to using Groups Files. Notebooks will be covered by this too.
        The challenge is going to be how to give external users the Conversations and Calendar experience of Groups. It's sitting in a shared mailbox and accessible from 'Outlook On The Web' (OWA), Outlook 2016 and now Outlook Groups apps. How will Microsoft change access so an external user can open and participate in that underlying shared mailbox? They will still depend on authentication with a Microsoft or Office 365 account.
        I'm sure Microsoft will come up with something. Maybe when Office 365 Groups has a complete experience for external user participation, Yammer might be breathing it's last. Or maybe not. What does Yammer's roadmap look like? Is it one of assimilation or integration? Are they beginning to ramp up innovation behind the scenes and the public aren't seeing it yet? Time will tell.

        Notification Disruption...

        It's commonly said that Yammer creates more email notifications and makes your Inbox busier. Let's compare this to Groups Conversations or email and distribution groups. Are Enterprise Social Networks (ESNs) any more distracting than email when it comes to getting work done? In email centric companies, with all their distribution groups, reply-all's, CCs and BCCs, the volume and frequency of email in Inboxes is also distracting from getting work done. This is why features like Clutter and focused mailboxes have been introduced.
        Groups experience the same notification behaviour as Yammer. When you subscribe to a Yammer group or Office 365 group, you will receive an email every time someone posts or replies.
        This is no different to being part of a distribution group. But Yammer and Office 365 Groups have one thing in their favour over distribution groups. You can unsubscribe from notifications and check the group periodically for messages. Office 365 Groups has a further advantage that with Outlook 2016, you can periodically check the conversations easily alongside your own Inbox. You'll have to visit the Yammer site periodically to read conversations.

        It's the way we use it, not what we are using....

        ESNs are no more of a time-waster than email. Some of us use email in the same way we use Instant Messaging. An email notification pop-up appears on our screen and we are compelled to read it and reply.
        Interruption Science is the study of the effect of disruptions on job performance. It identifies notifications of all kinds as the source of interruptions - email, text messages, application notifications, phone calls and more. How we manage our notifications matters more than the platform or appliance that the notification comes from. We are more productive in our day by turning off our notifications for blocks of time and periodically checking our messages. This is a discipline that many of us could benefit from. That same discipline can be applied to checking ESNs.
        It's how we are using our chosen communication platforms that causes us to waste time. It's not the platform itself. Discipline yourself to get blocks of work done in 'quiet hours' with notifications turned off, the phone going to voicemail, and you'll find you get more done.

        Yammer needs more work...

        That’s clear. But there's still a place for Yammer and Enterprise Social Networks, for those organizations who choose to communicate and discuss in different ways to traditional email.
        I care less for the platform and more for the capabilities. Quoting from John Liu's response on this post, Groups are the direction Microsoft are taking "carving out features that were once within silos and make them cross-product micro-services." The micro-services are becoming more important and Groups are the mechanism for bringing those together. Groups are only going to get better. What part Yammer plays in this is still to be seen. We're starting to see social features such as the @Mention and Like come to email experience. Likes are already part of Groups. The decision to implement these may in part be to recreate an Enterprise Social experience in email. If the extent of Groups-Yammer integration is just to provision a Yammer Group when an Office 365 Group is created, I don't think that is enough.

        • Chris Slemp said Reply

          Darrell, I think you're spot on. See my post from earlier this year that claims "which tool when" is the wrong question to be asking. Tools will be fluid from team to team and scenario to scenario. What matters most are the underlying principles we're learning: one canonical version of a doc (we learned this from SharePoint, and is now being reinforced by Outlook 2016), open conversations for transparency (started with Yammer, but moving to Exchange), increased search relevance by leveraging network signals (Delve, as inspired by Yammer's Open Graph implementation).

          As I'm implying above, Yammer's influence on Office has been significant, and continues to be, even while user-facing changes have slowed while they spent time on backend integration, both technical and organizational.

          I think a funeral is premature.

      • Wictor said Reply

        Thanks Darrell. Great and interesting post. When I say time waster is the silo experience we have with Yammer today. If it was better integrated with Sites, Mail, Delve, Videos etc etc the experience would be so much better. The thing we waste time on the most is the actual context switching, something that we humans have big issues with.

      • Simon J.K. Pedersen said Reply

        Hi Wictor,

        Great to see a lengthy post about your opinions, and observations which I in large agree with.
        But I don't agree with your conclusions, due to the fact there atm is no replacement or other service (within the MS ecosystem) that can fulfill the job that yammer does.
        I'm not saying that yammer is awesome, but if you buy into the idea that enterprise social networks can improve productivity (as I see you don't anymore?) then yammer is your best option. Lack of updates aside, it is at least a complete product with apps and browser based solutions that works.

        I hope your post is an attempt to wake up MS more than it's your final judgement.

        • Wictor said Reply

          Simon, what I say is that I think the siloed ESN is going away in favor of an Enterprise Social Fabric that is integrated with other tools/solutions. That is the future. Yammer due to its nature and background and architecture can never be that solution.

          Enterprise social is absolutely important, saying something else was not my intention.

      • Magnus G said Reply

        Great article. I have also tried to get in touch with their team without any luck so this confirms my thoughts of what the "master plan" might be.

        I am looking forward to the day when the Governance of groups are more manageable. Your article "Office 365 Groups for Admins - Group creation policies" were very helpful and makes Groups a little less "messy" :-)

      • Per Ove Sandhåland said Reply

        Thank you for your excellent and deep investigation of the features today, and for your perception of the future of social work.

        I do believe you are sincere. As a Yammer advocate, I am having a hard time to believe the conclusion that Yammer can never be a integrated part of a microservice world. In a way I am still hoping that Microsoft will surprise us with something awesome from the Yammer aquisition, that fills holes in the conversation technology today. I love Yammer and have seen how much help it is in gettting in tocuh with others of same interrests and finding people and earlier conversations.

        It should be deeply integrated and natural to information in documents and on projects or products.

        This is where I see Groups be on a better track. For a normal person (not an IT geek), the way of working is almost always the simplest way or by old habit.

        To change habits, you need to provide a simpler way and make it attractive.

        Yammer is not deeply integrated (yet). Groups conversations are. They are immediatle available.

        So if Yammer would get this is well and be instantly available in a group or project, what is the reason to use group conversations?
        Are they better? simpler? more sexy? easier to find in the long run?

        Writing this, makes me think of some features Yammer should not have. Sharing documents.

        When Groups Files get metadata I do not see Yammers features to be able to compete.

        Yammer has not been deprecated as Infopath has been. Will it ever?
        will it just be a supported system like Infopath until 2025?

        If so, we should really like to know. Now!






        • Wictor said Reply

          Per Ove - one of my main pain points with Yammer is its identity management. For three years Microsoft has been unable to use one identity for Office 365 and Yammer - so what are the odds that they will sort that out in the next coming years. Without a common identity system there is no way you can build efficient micro services.

      • Marc de Kleijn said Reply

        Another hint that Yammer is slowly going away is that the Yammer certification program was discontinued a while ago (Power User, Community Manager, Trainer & Administrator).

      • Bart Swerts said Reply

        Hi Wictor

        I think you're really pointing out the most important success limiting issues of the platform. Too long have we been telling the enterprises that "great things are coming" and managing expectations without visible improvements. Also, the shift to the embedded web part should have been more gently in my opinion. But a lot of the issues could probably be deducted to the lack of an integrated identity system.

        So is it dead? Maybe not yet, but it's slowly dying for sure. Until now, it has never been my first choice customer advice towards SharePoint ESN, but the conditions under which I would advice Yammer are becoming more restricted. For sure, some companies could benefit from it, but less and less of them qualify for a rollout. And that, not only from a technologic point of view but in general, is a strong indication that a certain level of maturity will never be achieved. Which of course is a smasher on the long term.

        Time will tell, but it's going to need some killer features - and quickly!

      • Scott Jackson said Reply

        As a big Yammer flag waiver, I have been concerned about Microsoft's long term direction for Yammer. When Microsoft introduced Office Groups last year without it being based on Yammer technology for me the writing was on the wall from that decision. On the YamJam with Microsoft on 1st Oct 2015, there was a barrage of questions from the Yammer community about the product direction, and the stated position is that Yammer conversations will be integrated into Office Groups in H2 of 2016, however, with the launch of Office Groups directly in Outlook 2016 for desktop, there is a lot of sceptism about how businesses will be expected to ask people to know which groups to use for what. The office groups engine is currently lacking in significant features that prevent it replacing all of Yammer at the moment, but you can see where the investment is being made.

      • Simon Denton said Reply

        For me fabric is the right term, describing it as a network is a bad choice. SharePoint and Yammer are fabric services and we’ll witness the continual slide of the products into the background. We’ll consume the services in features like Groups and Delve but it would be unlikely that end users will interact with the products directly.
        I also think that it appears like there is a lack of cohesion across the O365 platform with the SharePoint, Delve, OneDrive, Video, Groups etc. teams working in isolation to each other. I think perhaps this has contributed to Yammers drift and eventual slide.
        One aspect that the blog misses is that Yammer still has a considerable standalone market. I do wonder what will happen to that.

      • Dave said Reply

        Really enjoyed reading your post. I think you're right and one of your comments summarizes why (IMHO):

        "The thing we waste time on the most is the actual context switching, something that we humans have big issues with."

        I say let them fade into the background as Simon Denton alluded to above. Relevant content without the switching.

      • Christian Buckley said Reply

        A lot of great points being made here. Rather than repeat what others have so eloquently stated, I'll just make one point: social is most successful when it happens within the workload -- not at a separate URL, or from a separate tab in the UI. And that's where Microsoft has failed over the past 3.5 years with Yammer, but is moving in the right direction with Groups, and, arguably, in a direction that is closer to where SharePoint native social features were headed with SP2013.

        Not that I don't think there is value in Yammer. I am still an advocate for using it for external communities. But even there, OneDrive and external sharing diminish that value to some degree.

      • Pauli Sarkia said Reply

        Yammer included some really neat ideas, but it always bothered me that it was so separate and didn't fit into the Office family. As a standalone solution it worked great.

        It's great seeing Yammer's good ideas working themselves into Office 365 and bringing the goodness to it.

        Microsoft is slowly removing integration with Yammer, such as Document Conversions, and all these clues tells that Yammer is slowly fading away...

      • Chris Slemp said Reply

        They were pretty clear with the announcement that they were removing Doc Conversations that they are committed to the scenario and want to re-do it right.

       
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