20 Replies Latest reply on Jul 6, 2009 8:03 PM by mark.schwanke

    Potentially confusing aspects of Clearspace

      Just wanted to start an open discussion with everyone. Are there any feature in Clearspace that are confusing or counter-intuitive? Or is there anything that's really neat but you don't feel that people are using it to it's full potential? My goal is to compile get short little documents up on each of these items and share it with the rest of the community.

       

      I know there are some system properties that can be pretty handy in using Clearspace, but they stay hidden in the code.

        • Re: Potentially confusing aspects of Clearspace

          In the category of really neat but seemingly confusing must come Tag Groups, so much so that they are not available in Groups.

           

          IMHO Tag Groups are a standout feature in Clearspace, something that free's us from the constrains of hierarchical file structures or over using sub-spaces. Whilst 80% of content might fit into neat boxes you'll always find some content that spans leading to confusion about where to put things. With Tag Groups you can have content appear in several Tag Groups.

           

          The disappointment that the functionality support for Tag Groups has hardly changed since Clearspace 1.0. This feels like a contributing factor in the adoption of use.

           

          I'd be very happy to co-author a document focusing on Tag Groups.

            • Re: Potentially confusing aspects of Clearspace

              I agree, and I feel that the lack of development in Tag Groups stems from the lack of use (creating a self-feeding cycle). I've gotten a lot of calls from users with questions of how to organize data 'like folders' and Tag Groups are probably the best way to go about doing this. Please feel free to start work on a document about Tag Groups and what you've done to make it work with you -- I'll definitely try to add any other helpful bits of info.

              • Re: Potentially confusing aspects of Clearspace
                bobjewell

                +1 on that.

                 

                Our biggest stopping show-stoppers for tag group adoption is that they are not managable from the non-admin interface.  Ideally, they'd even be managable inline while editing a document.   Tag groups are a unique concept and warrant some training, but a couple interface tweaks could really make them stand out to the every day user, imo.

              • Re: Potentially confusing aspects of Clearspace
                bobjewell

                My users frequently complain that they have no idea who can see their content.   We have a finely tunable permissions system, but there is no way for Joe User to know who else can see his content in a particular space.

                I, admittedly, have no idea how to approach this.  Our system has thousands of internal users - Each in LDAP, Each in one or more various LDAP groups.  95% of those users don't even know what LDAP is, and the concept of "Groups", even in clearspace, doesn't stand out at all (that word is tied completely to the admin console.).. This is generally fine - they don't need to know about groups, but we definitely do have private spaces, and the members of those spaces don't know who can see that space, and who can see documents inside that space.  I can't imagine what interface feature would allow that.

                 

                We've taken the approach of insisting that users assume everything is readable by the entire community, unless they are informed otherwise.  But even if we say to Financing that they have a special private space where they talk about sensitive things like budgets, they are given no indication of this when posting a reply to a discussion.

                 

                Changing the focus slightly, since we're talking about confusing aspects and not feature requests - It's also quite confusing for a young space admin, when looking at the permissions for a space, because inherited permissions that are not 'anyone' or 'registered users' do not display unless you change them on that space.  I think it would be wise to have all inherited permissions display on the space permissions page.  (oops, feature request snuck in. )

                  • Re: Potentially confusing aspects of Clearspace

                    *Tag Groups* - yes please, a doc on the usefulness (& techniques for employing groups) would be very helpful. We've just adopted CS in our business, and we need ways to get people comfortable with moving away from file folder hierarchies, and managing unwieldy search results would help.  *Permissions Visibility* - I echo this concerns as well. We have a restricted management space with a blog, but no one has been confident enough to use it yet, as it's not apparent who can see it (blog).  Non-admin users don't ever see how permissions are managed, so they don't have any information that makes them feel secure in trusting the restrictions.

                      • Re: Potentially confusing aspects of Clearspace

                        Awesome suggestiosn, everyone. Since we have a long weekend coming up (yay!), I'm going to try and get a draft up for these two issues so that everyone can take a look and work on them.

                          • Re: Potentially confusing aspects of Clearspace

                            Understanding scope of Tag Groups (where they can be seen vis-a-vis where they are created) would be helpful.

                              • Re: Potentially confusing aspects of Clearspace

                                So about tag groups: Beyond basic use of them, I'm not really sure what else to put in the document

                                 

                                Does anyone have any tips or want to share how they're using tag groups in their instance?

                                  • Re: Potentially confusing aspects of Clearspace
                                    jsarmi

                                    Hi, Vinh... Any updates on this? I've been thinking about how useful but confusing Tag groups can be so I was glad to find this thread.

                                      • Re: Potentially confusing aspects of Clearspace
                                        mark.schwanke

                                        Vinh-

                                         

                                        Is there an equivalent for Jive SBS 3.0.X for this discussion? My usage of tag groups is more end user focused than employee focused.

                                         

                                        When I saw Tag Groups I thought great!!!! Here's a way for us to suggest users what Tags to use. We can group tags together by topic. As they post they can pick one or more from each Tag group based on their root post.

                                         

                                        Then those who visit the site looking for someone can go to their community and then filter by using the Tag Group Widget versus the Tag Cloud Widget. Communities with Tag Groups assigned have the Tag Group widget forced at the top of the both the Documents and Discussions widgets within a community. Using Tag Group as a navigation/search tool is completely useless in our instance. Let me explain our situation so you understand why.

                                         

                                        We have essentially 3 Tag Groups:

                                         

                                        1. Products/Models

                                        2. Service Providers related to those Products/Models

                                        3. List of Topics related to those Products/Models

                                         

                                        As Tag Groups work now from a navigation/search tool perspective, sorting by tag group does nothing for the user as most posts have tags from two or more separate tag groups. If they have one from each of the three, then the all three lists will be the same. Only posts without tags or tags that aren't in the tag groups within that community would be excluded from the results.

                                         

                                        I want users to be able to click on the first tag group and only see the various models in that community. The models they would click would be added in the header (similar to the tag cloud) so the user could see which tags they've chosen so far. Dynamically the results would resort. The user could then chose another product or switch to another tag group. When they switch tag groups they can then choose a service provider from the list. Again the tag is added to the header of the widget (as a bread crumb) and the results dynamically re-sort. Lastly, the user chooses the Topic Tag Group and chooses a tag that most resembles their issue. They now see their results that are tailored to their situation and they didn't need to guess what search terms to use. I find this better than the tag cloud widget as the user is focused to a pre defined list and they aren't overwhelmed with the tags being all combined.

                                         

                                        Mark

                            • Re: Potentially confusing aspects of Clearspace
                              crossman

                              I agree with Mark's post. If Tag Groups worked the way described there it would be a lot more convenient.  Tag Groups seem to work well when you have a large set of documents but not all of them are tagged by each of the Tag Groups. In the case noted above, when each item is tagged as a Product, Service, and Topic then the use of Tag groups is rather confusing. Perhaps, in part, because the tag cloud appears below the fold and to the right, rather than right underneath the tag group labels at the top/center of the screen.

                              • Re: Potentially confusing aspects of Clearspace

                                Here are a couple of items we've found very confusing in 2.5 since our upgrade. These functions no longer provide as useful a result.

                                 

                                 

                                • Side-by-side comparison view shows the rendered view of the different versions of the document rather than the underlying html. For those determining how to align document at the HTML structural level consistency....this is not terribly helpful. In the 1.x version, you saw underlying code.

                                 

                                • Titles on Wiki Docs are not dynamically updated in links to that document. If you go back and change a Wiki Doc Title you will need to manually update the titles to any reference you are pointing to the original document.
                                • Re: Potentially confusing aspects of Clearspace

                                  One of the complaints we hear a lot is that users get lost in navigation once they are browsing a community and decide to see a user profile. There is no way back into the community except using the browser back button. This is not a problem for technology savvy users but it frustrates a lot of important people......

                                    • Re: Potentially confusing aspects of Clearspace
                                      mark.schwanke

                                      I would agree with this as well. We haven't customized our posts to indicate select profile fields so for now I need to look a poster's profile in order to answer correctly. Having to use the back button to return to a post is aggrevating.  I'm the savvy person so I know what to do, but our customers aren't all this savvy so we need it to be as clear as possible.

                                       

                                      Mark

                                    • Re: Potentially confusing aspects of Clearspace

                                      If you use Google Analytics there is no way to report Document usage because the URL scheme for documents /docs/DOC-ID does not relate to the community when we filter the usage report based on URL /community/research/*

                                       

                                      This would be of a big help.....