5 Replies Latest reply on Aug 7, 2008 10:11 PM by gialyons

    Quickr vs. Clearstep?

      What do people think about the pros and cons of this tool vs. IBM's Quickr?

        • Re: Quickr vs. Clearstep?

          Just to clarify, Clearstep is a community. Jive Clearspace is the solution it runs on. Also, I think you're referring to IBM Lotus Quickr. And wow, Robert, I just saw that you have embarked on a new adventure! Congrats!

          • Re: Quickr vs. Clearstep?


            Having cleared up the terminology (worth doing) is there a view within Jive about Clearspace's positioning vis-a-vis Quickr? From my memory of Quickr demos, there seems to some overlap, although Quickr seems to have more of a content-management flavour ... Clearspace seems to fit across/between Quickr and IBM Lotus Connections. I quite like the look of the Lotus software, and think that the comparison should be between Quickr/Connections/Sametime (IM) and Clearspace/Ignite ...


            Now - for the record I quite like Clearspace too, but haven't tried Ignite yet (and now my test server is being commandeered for something else, it might take a while to check it out )

            • Re: Quickr vs. Clearstep?

              Rick, you nailed it.


              Disclaimer: I wanted to refrain from joining this discussion in detail, because I work for Jive Software. Also, I really want to adhere to this community's directive to be vendor-agnostic and marketing-free. But if this community really wants to know the difference between Quickr and Clearspace, I feel I should answer. The following is, of course, a biased view, and does not reflect the views of Jive Software, nor does it provide any official statements from Jive Software. Having been an IBM Lotus technical sales specialist for eight years, including being the Americas Lotus Connections evangelist for 18 months, and a Notes developer before that, I am in a unique position to answer this question. I certainly welcome my friends from IBM to join this conversation to provide balance to my bias!


              History of Lotus Quickr


              Quickr began in the 1990's as QuickPlace, a pure Lotus Domino application. It was built specifically for teams to share documents and coordinate projects across the firewall, with robust collaboration-level library services (check-in, check-out, etc.). It was one of the first Domino applications built solely for the Web, as opposed to the Notes client. It competed most closely with solutions like eRoom and SharePoint Teamsites, which, by the way, seem to have been reincarnated as Windows SharePoint Services (WSS).


              Today, QuickPlace is known as Quickr, and there is a flavor for Domino and a flavor for WebSphere Portal. It is best used via integration with desktop applications, in my opinion. Check the Quickr website for all of the desktop applications with which Quickr integrates (note: desktop integration requires client-side installation and configuration).


              Lotus Connections and Lotus Quickr


              Just as SharePoint did, Quickr began sporting "good enough" wiki, blog, and profile features a couple of years ago. And, just like SharePoint, Quickr works best with business partner or IT-created templates and customizations. The most popular are the Domino-based templates from SNAPPS. Also, just like SharePoint, Quickr lacks social networking capabilities, which are provided by integration with Lotus Connections, a separately licensed, separately installed, separately customized/themed, and separately administered social networking solution. Lotus Connections' five .ear files run on WebSphere Application Server (not Domino, not WebSphere Portal).


              Lotus Sametime and Lotus Quickr


              Again, just like SharePoint (tired of reading that yet?), Quickr lacks realtime capabilities. But, when it is integrated with Lotus Sametime, a Lotus Domino application that is separately licensed, separately installed, separately administered, and separately customized/themed, those realtime capabilities are quite nice within Quickr. Sametime Advanced services, which is an optional WebSphere-based component for Sametime that provides persistent chat rooms, a broadcast suite, and other advanced realtime capabilities, can also be integrated with Lotus Connections.



              Quickr, Connections, and Sametime


              There are happy IBM Lotus customers who are running Quickr (Domino or WebSphere Portal), Connections (WebSphere) and Sametime (Domino plus WebSphere for advanced services) in an integrated fashion. They also have these services integrated into their Notes 8 client for a seamless user experience.


              This modular IBM solution is a best fit inside the enterprise, within an infrastructure that includes WebSphere and Lotus Domino, with the respective skills associated with those platforms. Obviously.


              Jive Clearspace 2.5 (the beta is what you're using in Clearstep) includes most of what Quickr offers, and most of what Connections offers, plus several capabilities not found in either. (Of course, there are features in the IBM solution that are not in Clearspace. I'll leave that to an IBMer to explain. ) It is a single JEE .war file, supported on a multitude of application servers. It provides a single installation, single adminstration, single development platform, single user design/theme creation, and single out-of-the-box, no-integration-required user experience.


              By the way, how do you like the user experience here in Clearstep? It is the out-of-the-box Clearspace 2.5 experience, in case you were wondering. No customizations.

              History of Clearspace


              Jive Clearspace was built from the ground up in 2006 as the antidote to all of the separate teamspace, wiki, blog, expertise profile, shared document, forum, and social networking solutions. Originally, Clearspace was created to address the needs of external online communities, such as this one. The same code base is used for enterprise networking and collaboration, but with different configurations enabled and disabled.

              For example, when Clearspace is deployed for online communities, the Friending feature is defaulted to "needs approval." If you've friended someone here in Clearstep, you know what this means. When Clearspace is deployed internally, however, this model doesn't work as well. So, it's called "following," and includes new ways to manage all of your connections. It also doesn't require approval. But, you could enable approval if you wanted to.


              Clearspace and OpenFire


              OpenFire is an open source realtime application. Jive used to sell it, but decided to release it to the open source community. That means it's free. It has many of the capabilities of Sametime, including some available in Sametime Advanced. It conforms to the XMPP IETF standard. Realtime features, powered by OpenFire, will be available in Clearspace (watch for details after Clearspace 2.5 is officially announced). It will be woven into the user experience quite nicely. It requires a separately installed and administered - and free - OpenFire server, of course.


              In my opinion, the OpenFire features will most likely be best suited for online communities at first. Deeper integration with the leading enterprise realtime solutions, Lotus Sametime and Office Communication Server, are needed before these capabilities would be a good fit for internal use. (Note: this is NOT a statement of direction on Jive's part, but be assured that our leadership is certainly aware of this need.)



              How do Quickr for WebSphere Portal and Clearspace compare scalability-wise?


              I prepared this information just yesterday for a prospective customer. This reflects each solution installed on a clustered application server, separate from the database:


              SolutionCPUsRAMTotal Users
              20% Active Concurrency
              Jive Clearspace 2.0 (not available for 2.5 yet)2 dual core CPUs (at least 2 GHz)4GB, 2GB Java heap5,0001,000
              IBM Lotus Quickr for WebSphere Portal 8.1 (source)2 dual core CPUs (3.4 GHz)2GB, (Java heap not stated)


              I couldn't find Lotus Quickr for Domino scalability information. Note that Domino provides the data, application, and Web layer in a single box. You can optionally use a separate Web server.



              Learn more about Clearspace and OpenFire


              If you'd like to dig deeper into Clearspace and OpenFire from a features and development capabilities perspective, check out the links below. Note that we are feverishly working on a plethora of Clearspace 2.5 instructional videos for end users, administrators, and developers. These videos will be publicly available, and even better, reusable within your own internal education efforts.


              All of these sites run on Jive Clearspace.


              Jive Customers (includes links to their online communities running on Clearspace, plus video testimonials)


              Clearspace Features (has NOT been updated for 2.5 yet - will be updated August 19-ish)


              Clearspace Community Features (has NOT been updated for 2.5 yet - will be updated August 19-ish)


              Jive Development Community


              Clearspace Plugin Catalog


              Clearspace Documentation, Best Practices, etc.


              OpenFire Ignite Realtime Open Source Community

              Jive Software Supportal



              Things I left out


              Obviously, this is not a comprehensive comparison. I didn't address search, APIs, language support, software support, pricing, hardware and software requirements, or many of the other lovely things found in Requests for Information or Proposal (RFI/RFP). But, that's what Google is for.


              I hope this helps, and I hope this thread doesn't devolve into a vendor war. If it does, I know the community managers will shut it down, and probably whack me with a wet noodle for starting it. Ha!

              • Re: Quickr vs. Clearstep?

                Gia - there should be no smacking with noodles, wet or otherwise. If you read my original post carefully, I got what I asked for! I think (biased or not) this was a useful comparison, even if necessarily truncated. And I asked you the question BECAUSE of your unique position to give a useful answer, not DESPITE it. You're right - it would be good to get an IBM-flavoured response. My pesonal opinion is that at the moment, the IBM stuff (pricing/complexity considerations ignored) probably fits the corporate world a little better, because of more complete integration with existing enterprise set-ups (whether Lotus Notes/Domino or MS Exchange/Outlook/Sharepoint) ... I'm sure Jive has some plans in that area.


                If you ARE going to brag about Clearspace installations, I think you should also mention the Office 2.0 conference site (http://office20.com/ - at time of writing it looks like Ismael has the site down, but you can read about it at http://itredux.com/2008/08/06/office-20-conference-website-2/).


                One more question (that we can take off-line if you prefer) that I have asked elsewhere: is it/will it be possible to front-end Sharepoint (my corporate reality) with Clearspace?

                • Re: Quickr vs. Clearstep?

                  Rick, thanks for pointing that out! I'm glad I delivered!


                  Also, I can't even keep track of how many Notes shops I'm talking to about Clearspace these days. Integration with "everything else" seems like a no-brainer requirement, but it turns out it's not so much. Definitely more so for file-oriented organizations, however.


                  Unfortunately, I can't answer your question re: front-ending SharePoint right now, but it is definitely on the radar.